At 5', the normal BMI range spans 36 pounds.
At 6' the normal BMI range spans 48 pounds.
That seems like plenty of room for body diversity to me.
My obesity didn't just "naturally occur," I had to eat way over my daily energy requirements for many years to get this big.
Why cite an actual study when opinions qualify as facts? Like which study/s. Please share where all this researching you've done that proves your point came from. Please provide a link to the peer reviewed scientific research. O that's right, you can't.
The worst part is they wrote - fat studies reader - as if it provides some qualification.
I'm not sure why I find that the most troubling part of the whole thing.
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When you're the majority, you're not diversity.
Self-serving schlock, in my Fat Studies Reader? :O
Suuure, just find a text about gay rights, replace "gay" with "fat" and publish that. Not problematic at all. Nope.
This is perfectly fine. It's fine. She's fine. This is fine. It's fine. (#obscurereferences)
Calling sick people “diabetic”...blah blah blah...naturally occurring difference...blah blah...I am in a constant state of denial and blame...blah blah blah....
Funny how we were a lot less “diverse” 50 years ago
Cancer is naturally occurring. That doesn't make it a positive thing.
I’ve never been to a zoo to watch a morbidly obese giraffe eat hot pockets. I’m fairly certain this is limited to humans and our pets. It’s not natural.
Natural Selection is a naturally occurring difference that would filter out obese people, but as a society of moral people we go against the grain so I don't see what the difference is here, even if it weren't a pile of BS.
There are all kinds of syndromes and diseases that are naturally occurring and also medically treated. Should we not medicalize asthma or hypercholesterolemia?
And fatness is not "naturally occurring." Point out one person your size, Marilyn, who hunts and gathers. Morbid obesity is only expressed in an unnatural environment of constant abundance of calorically dense, reward center triggering food, with little energy expenditure required to obtain it.
Well it's partly correctly; this naturally occurring difference can be observed when an excess quantity of food is available and people don't exercise self restraint in its presence.
Can someone explain to me why so many people get upset with the word "obese?"
"medicalization of weight"
weight only becomes medicalized when it becomes a medical concern
Ugh I really can’t stand the demonization of the entire medical field. That’s the fatlogic that gets me most.
“Medicalizes human diversity”... What kind of pseudo-intellectual BS is this?
The hell is fat studies?
It's a naturally occurring difference that leads to naturally occurring selection
Marylin is an awful human.
It didn't fix my problems but it was one less thing in the quagmire of shit to worry about
I'm sorry I'm too focused on the world's cutest mad baby. She looks like someone just told her she couldn't eat their keys.
If this chemical imbalance they speak of is depression, or what I suspect to be self diagnosed depression, exercise and pride in successfully losing weight can help a great deal.
Hmm could the chemical elements I put in my body to fuel it have anything to do with a chemical imbalance?
I wonder what the chemical imbalance is. Generally speaking, I thought that diet and exercise could help with a lot of chemical imbalances, but not always necessarily cure them?
And that is one adorable little baby.
By chemical imbalance I assume they're referring to mental health problems?
I have bipolar 1. Guess what has helped almost as much as my meds? Losing weight. Pride in my accomplishments. Not hating what I see in the mirror.
Every time I go to the doctor I’m asked to stop smoking, even if it’s irrelevant to my concern. I don’t see this as persecution or conspiracy. Why wouldn’t they mention such a major health issue every single time, instead of waiting for a ‘right’ time?
I wish people would stop writing off weight loss, healthy eating, and exercise. Taking care of yourself really does a lot of good for a variety of mental and physical conditions. Even if it doesn't cure it still helps. Moving more and eating better isn't ever going to be bad for you, I just don't understand why people are so revolted by it.
I have a variety of health issues that were cured or improved by diet and exercise. I'd much rather run/lift a few days a week than go back to taking meds with awful side effects.
the more weight I lose and the fitter I get, the more confident I feel that I can handle pretty much whatever life throws at me. Do I wanna go for a long hike? Do I want to throw on a swimsuit and go to the beach? Heck yeah I do. I can carry those awful tubs of cat litter from the store to the car to my house with minimal effort. I feel more comfortable in my business clothes at work, and I feel like I look better. Literally everything is easier, and that absolutely helps me emotionally.
I think chemical imbalance referred to not having enough processed foods and therefore needing to increase the intake to improve their health. Why don’t doctors get this?
I have anxiety but I don't think mine is brought on by chemical imbalances, so take my position with a grain of salt. But just getting a portion of my life organized helped my mind immensely. Building and maintaining habits you're proud of takes patience, self control, and organization. When some parts of your life feel more in your control and more organized, it can ease up the mental pressure. Like another commenter so eloquently said, it's less shit in the quagmire of shit.
B-but it actually will help... Why do these people go to doctors just to dismiss their advice?
I have a chemical imbalance in my brain and losing weight most definitely helped.
I have anxiety and am prone to depression. Exercise and eating healthy really really helped. I'm not cured and take meds but my quality of life now is so much better than 2 years ago when I would wake up panicking.
Nobody is naturally fat!!! It makes me so mad that people spread these lies.
Feel free to show your doctors the results of a bod pod or DEXA scan if you don't like BMI.
She'll be in for quite a rude shock when she finds that BMI was in fact more lenient, not less.
Her body wants to be fat just like my body wants cheese fries. Both of our bodies are wrong. Yay for having brains, too!
How is it when these peoples' bodies communicate with them, it's always "I want to be fat" or "give me some cheesecake" and never "I'm getting a little too heavy" or "you're not treating me very well" or "carrying all this weight makes my heart work too hard"?
It's funny how this communication works.
Who would win? Someone who spent 4 years of medical school and 3+ years of residency or one tumblr gurl
How can someone be this stupid?
I keep telling my doctor my weight is healthy, but he keeps dismissing my assertion that I'm healthy. It must be his penis. Anyway, I'm going to the pharmacy to pick up my pills.
This person is delusional.
You know what you sound like?
"Officccccssser, I swear I been hardly drrrurinking at all and your brethatlize...britalizg... Breathy thing must be broken cuz I for sure didn't drink too much. I am healthy and... Um. I resent your system that calculaterrres my worth as a human by blood alcohol. Ssss'outdated. Bad. Imma for sure healthy. Bad officer disssscrimination give me pills now please and thank but fuckin' copsshjh"
No, you're not naturally fat. You just don't have the self-control for fork put downs and table push aways.
Which is fine, but call it for what it is. You can put powdered sugar on a pile of crap, but that doesn't make it a jelly doughnut.
Well, at least she didn't claim she had a high BMI because she had extra muscle.
My wonderful, yet overweight, male SO gets told by his male general practitioner that he needs to lose weight at each visit...is his doctor just being sexist?
Why do I doubt that she’ll be happy when the doctors pull out height/weight charts or measure her height/weight ratio or just do a caliper test?
It's always amazing how these "I'm naturally fat and healthy" people seem to have seen more doctors in one year than I have in my entire life even if I include dentists.
Idiotic things like this make me sometimes want to check out of humanity. Good lord.
"The people who undergo half a decade of education about the human body disagree with me on a matter pertaining to the human body, and it's because they are inexplicably overcome by fear and prejudice". What a classic.
shit, if you're naturally fat then why even go to the doctor?
i didn't know it could be like that. why have i been shoveling french fries and beer and hot dogs into my stomach when i should be understanding that i can't be naturally fat? i feel like beer and fried food are like PEDs now.
The doctors are being rude and condescending by giving advice to make someone as healthy as possible? What the hell has happened to society???
I feel like the microsoft paperclip when reading this:
-"determine"...did you mean 'diagnose'?
-"naturally fat" ...I see that you do not possess supernatural powers. Perhaps you should continue investigating the laws of nature, might I suggest human metabolism and biology?
-"fatphobia and sexism"... lol, wut?
The only sanity in this is that yes, BMI is a fucking garbage generalization. Body fat % testing is much more accurate of a health scale. BMI accounts for weight, height, gender, that's it. It's an awful measurement of actual health.
Please, for the love of fuck, someone explain to me why these idiot fucktrucks think that motherfucking years of medical school mean nothing. I don't know shit about medical crap. If I go to my PCP and she says "hey, this is a thing you should be worried about," regardless of what it is, I FIX THAT SHIT.
/primal screech into the void
I mean we humans spread all over the globe because we can eat just about anything and thrive. There’s a short list of essential nutrients we have to have, but beyond that, just about anything goes.
So pick whatever lets you be as happy as possible while staying at your individual calorie budget.
Yup. Really the various diets are about managing your hunger and how easy they are to comply with. Find something you can stick with. When you can't stick with it anymore try a different one.
I really like this study. It shows that it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you sick to it long term. And that's why going on a diet for a couple of weeks doesn't work but changing your diet long term does.
I'd be interested to know how dietary adherence was measured. Was it strictly self-reported, or did they have some way of monitoring the patients' diets over the study period?
It's like your studies groom you to become fatphobic. How very dare they.
Dumb question: Did the studies compare varying macro compositions at the same number of calories? Eg 50% vs 20% carbs but both 1400 calories?
And this is one of the reasons fandom is just no fun and I burned out on the whole idea of being a good progressive. There was a fan artist named Zamii who drew Rose Quartz too skinny and Garnet too pale for the fandom's liking. And the fanbase hounded her and screamed that she was all kinds of horrible things until she tried killing herself.
And on a show that's all about love peace and sentient space rocks.
Just say "YES!!" to not having wrists!
Imagine the biggest problem of your day being that someone drew a cartoon character in a way you don't approve of?
The obnoxiously over-the-top "wokeness" was what initially put me off Steven Universe. This bugfuck insanity right here was what convinced me to avoid it like the plague.
why don't you love yourself
That's just an odd and kinda gross way to end this post. Maybe the artist is skinny and they do love themselves, that's why they're drawing skinny people. Maybe the artist is fat and loves themselves but feel like experimenting with different body shapes and that's why they drew a skinny person. Maybe your art doesn't reflect how much you love yourself.
Especially that in-universe her looks have nothing to do with being fat - gems bodies are literally light that can be formed in any way. So her body size is irrelevant as she could literally change it on a whim. You can't call her fat when her body is literally 0% fat, I think.
How do your symptoms prevent you from eating less?
You literally need to eat less. That's it.
Also your health can only hold out for so long. Sp these symptoms may not have been immediately present, but thet are weight related.
Maybe just trust your doctor and try it. Just to see.
“No history of complaints.”
Other than the aforementioned symptoms. But other than those complaints...no complaints.
Did Joe Biden tell a paraplegic to stand up? There must be some context to this that makes it less weird.
Clearly, there's no way it could be your weight, if you've been obese of years before it can't be, right ? /s
We all have to eat. Which means, we can all manage to eat fewer calories than we burn.
This bothers me so much. I spent 10+ years eating like shit and being 15lbs overweight. It’s true, I didn’t have any symptoms living like this until this year, in April I had my first gallbladder attack. Gallstones did not form the one lunch I had chicken fingers and fries. It took a long time of me eating a terrible diet, being overweight, and having the genes for it. I changed my diet and lost 20lbs in 7 months. It didn’t make the stones go away but damn does it feel good to not be overweight and have the energy to run faster and lift more. I just wish people would see that it’s their daily choices and their extra weight that’s killing them daily. Stuff breaks down on you after a while.
God I hate it when they start comparing themselves to disabled people. It makes me angry.
It's so if you code on the table due to a bad reaction to anesthesia, they have the facilities to revive you.
I can see why she'd be frustrated, it looks like the surgeon is fine with her weight, but the outpatient surgery center is saying no. So they probably started getting the paperwork together a bit later than the surgeon.
Honestly, depending on her weight, it may not be about her coding on the table, since smaller people can code as well. She may weigh too much for a standard table. A lot max out at 350lbs, but newer ones can go up to 500. So they may just only have older tables.
I matched her frustration up until the end of this... truly nothing is more frustrating than when someone else's lack of communication ends up inconveniencing you a lot, making things harder than they need to be. In a perfect world, she wouldn't have had to go through all that effort ahead of time, to then be cancelled on later. But when she started hypothesizing that it would just be fine if they were "lopping out a chunk of intestine" it kinda lost credibility.
There's a lot of talk from FA advocates about misdiagnoses due to fatness and fatphobia. Is everyone completely sure this is carpal tunnel syndrome? My dad was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome for the better part of a decade until they did a glucose tolerance test and his results strongly indicated T2D. He got his blood sugar under control, dropped 40 lbs in the process and lo and behold his hand tingling went away. He reversed his misdiagnosed neuropathy.
Sure it's not T2D induced neuropathy?
This actually prompted me to read the abstracts of some articles on Pubmed. One rather interesting study tracked mortality risks of surgery (30-day and 1-year mortality) as a function of various predictors, including BMI. Interestingly, mortality risk was well modeled by a U-shaped curve, and mortality risk was minimized around 26 BMI (borderline overweight).
In the tails of the distribution, the effects were most pronounced. At BMI's under 20 and over 40, mortality risks start to go through the roof.
Interestingly, though, the authors tracked various other factors that could correlate with both mortality risk and BMI. Some of the findings:
For individuals with a 35+ BMI ("obese 2"), the time for the procedure took almost 15% longer than it did for people with a BMI in the (normal) 18.5-25 range.
Heart failure was present in 3% of obese 2 individuals, compared to only 2% of normal ones.
COPD was diagnosed in 3% of obese 2's compared to 2% of the normal population.
But the kicker was that 4% of the normal group were diabetic, compared to 18% of the obese 2 population!
All the data is at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4164861/ if you're interested.
Another entry for my list of problems I don't have to deal with because my BMI is normal.
Aka thin privilege. Sweet sweet privilege.
Giving anyone anesthesia has risks. Those risks are higher when the person is over a certain BMI.
The hospital isn't fatshaming you. They're doing the right thing by not risking your life.
Routine =/= easy if you don't meet the basic safety criteria. Though, carpal tunnel isn't usually so... strict. I wonder if it's dud not only to the risks of anaesthesia but if the OP is so obese that healing is at risk?
You can get carpel tunnel from the angle the wrist uses for digging fires outve the bottom of the container.
They won’t put you under for non-lifesaving surgeries because you might die. If they approve surgery to “lop off a section of your intestines”, it’s because the danger of you dying from anesthesia is LESS THAN the danger of you remaining fat.
Fat people that have never been on a diet? Men. Probably middle aged men. I've met a lot of fat middle aged men and most of them don't have a problem with it. And those that do don't want to give up the pies and beer so they're going on the same as always.
Okiedokes, can we detest you because your opinions on matters are shite, though? That's not fat oppression, it's just shunning because of stupidity.
What is a clean group of fat people as a control for studies?
Fat people that eat clean, usually aren’t fat, or are in the middle of actually losing weight. I have never met a fat person, and I’m a former one, that eats “clean”
That’s like being a pornstar and celibate.
Seriously? That’s dumb. I’m mixed race and I don’t like hearing people talk about how “they’re the same,” no they aren’t. One can be changed, the other can’t. Guess which one! Fat people saying “fat phobia” is just as bad as racism is actually kind of rude, because comparing the two makes it seem as if racism isn’t a problem
There's only one thing that comes to mind in regards to all those claims of supposed fat oppression. Excuse my amateur image editing skills.
Claims of this supposed oppression are always frustrating. It's a "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means" sort of situation.
So what other groups of people can’t be studied because of this new ‘there’s no such thing as a control group’ theory?
The responses are a total disaster as well. I'll post more if this gains traction.
You. Are. Not. Your. Fat.
here's what else we don't have: a way to make fat people thin that is 1) SAFE2) EFFECTIVE3) LONG-LASTINGyou can sometimes get two out of three. which one will you sacrifice?
here's what else we don't have: a way to make fat people thin that is
you can sometimes get two out of three. which one will you sacrifice?
We've got a master rhetorician on our hands, folks. Let's examine why this "choose two out of three" nonsense is bullshit.
Let's say that, for whatever reason, you choose to sacrifice "effective". You're left with... a safe and long-lasting weight loss method? But if it's not effective, it has no effects, so it's neither safe nor unsafe. And if it has no effects, nothing about it can be long-lasting. So she's just logically wrong on that one.
Next, let's say you sacrifice "safe", and you choose an effective and long-lasting weight loss method. I honestly can't imagine what these methods would be (aside from eating-disorder-esque behaviors, and these aren't widely explicitly condoned). I also cannot fathom why people who claim health at every size would sacrifice their supposed health to try and lose weight unsafely, when they believe weight loss is impossible anyway. And I'm not sure why they'd buy into the idea that the method is "long-lasting" if they believe all weight-loss methods fail long-term. So once again, there's some cognitive dissonance that she needs to sort out.
Okay, last option. Let's say you sacrifice "long-lasting". You're left with a safe and effective weight-loss method (CICO fits the bill). What I'd love to ask her is why you cannot consistently employ this safe and effective method to prolong its effects. Much like, I don't know, making small sustainable changes to your diet over time so that you consistently stay within a certain calorie goal. Since it's effective, it'll stay effective as long as you keep it up. And since it's safe, there's no reason you shouldn't keep it up.
Problem solved. We've found a safe, effective, and long-lasting weight loss method. But it's all up to you: it's safe as long as you employ it safely, it's effective as long as you do it, and it lasts as long as you keep it up. So it seems her difficulty stems not from the lack of a good method, but from her unwillingness to put in the work to employ one, and her lack of accountability for her lifestyle choices. Glad that's clear.
Where the fuck did people get the idea that dieting is bad for your heart? Or that repeatedly losing and gaining weight is bad for you? It's not; it's being fat that causes heart problems.
Yes, fat people deserve to live without being teased, bullied or shamed. Because people who tease, bully and shame are dicks. But the world does not have to change to accommodate your growing size and poor health decisions. Telling the world to change just because you feel it is easier to complain about the world than change your eating habits is equally dickish.
I love the "we have no studies and no group of people to be in these studies, so there's no evidence" line.
Correlation is not causation, sure. Such a causative, controlled study does not exist, sure. It also never will be. Fat is unhealthy, every study points to that. To actually take a group of people, isolate them from society, overfeed certain people to various degrees, and study the effects over a long period of time is horrific and would never be approved by any ethics board, ever.
So we have to rely on correlation. We have to rely on the incidence of weight gain and T2 Diabetes. We have to rely on studies showing that excess body fat yields excess coronary artery fat, and heart attacks with it. We have to rely on studies showing decreased liver function due to NASH.
But even if we did have a causative study, that wouldn't satisfy the denial crowd. At that point, they haven't ruled out race, age, sex, genetics, thyroid function, insulin, desirability to the opposite sex, representation in lingerie ads, etc as the causative element. Even if they did, the study would be biased because doctors are biased or something. It will never be enough to convince them.
There's also no disconnecting this from racism, anti-blackness, ableism, classism, and other oppressions
She forgot to mention sexism, of course. That said, she never actually connected this to any of those things in the first place, so I guess there's no disconnect to make.
Safe, effective, long-lasting...Which one will you sacrifice?
I sacrificed soda, and lo and behold, I hit all three criteria.
I don't care about the aesthetics of fat people. Similarly, I don't think people I find ugly should all go get plastic surgery until they meet societal standards of beauty.
And I don't especially care about fat people's health at large because right now I'm just trying to get my own health in order. (And it's fucking hard, so I empathize with other fat people who are struggling with or ignoring their health).
But if fatness is not changeable, as described here, why has/does the rate of obesity continue to rise? Why weren't there such large numbers of fat people throughout history if everything is about metabolism and genetics and insulin resistance and not what you're eating?
I won't respond to those comments as though they're a serious point worthy of discussion.
Fucking addicts, man. Its amazing how many tunes they'll sing so they don't have to face the music.
Is there a safe, effective, long-lasting way to make fat people thin?
Is it easy?
And that's why I don't think the author of these tweets will do it.
Let’s assume for a moment that there was no cure for obesity. It is still at least partially the fault of the person that they became obese, as they had control over what and how much they ate. It is not unfair to subject a person to stigma for something which they did, no matter whether it cannot be undone. If I were to murder someone, should I go unpunished just because the deed cannot be undone?
The social stigma against obesity helps by discouraging the anti-social behavior of unnecessarily becoming a burden on society. It doesn’t have to help the stigmatized people themselves to be justified any more than prison sentences have to help felons. As long as it is discouraging others from making the same mistake it is providing a net benefit to society.
TIL I have heart problems without having excessive amounts of body fat or a diet that favors bad cholesterol and fat.
They don't have a way to make fat people thin? Like I don't a diet maybe? Or one that's safe and long lasting like making a conscious effort not to shove a sharing portion of crisps down their throat as a light snack twice a day. It pisses me off how normal people are evil for having basic control and they're the victims who just need a magic pill to burn off the 150ibs of bad decisions they made
Go think about it, but stay out of my mentions, because I've said MY piece, none of which can be refuted, and therefore there is no need for me to be involved in further discourse.
I like how she says that any way of losing fat can't be safe, effective, and long-lasting. If I can only have two of those three, I choose safe and long-lasting, because something that is safe and long-lasting sounds pretty effective.
If "being on diets" was such a major stress factor, humankind wouldn't have survived the paleolithic. Because, big surprise, hunter-gatherer societies don't usually have reliable abundant everyday food supplies.
Change your title and repost. This is not r/subredditcancer.
We've known that food intake relates to weight for hundreds of years. We know that we have to monitor our pet's diets. We know how to fatten up farm animals. We know if a wild animal is fat, then they've been eating a lot. We know that animals overeat in preparation for hibernation.
But somehow, just recently, when our diets have grown and super calorie-dense foods are widely available.....we now realize that apparently calories don't matter to humans. But just the fat ones. The skinny ones need cheeseburgers.
To be fair, when a human is overweight, any doctor worth his salt will recommend a diet too. But of course the FA community will take it as an attempt at oppression.
Also if obesity-linked health issues were truly caused by 'fatphobia' and feeling bad, then why do fat pets that are totally oblivious to things like fatphobia suffer from obesity-linked health issues?
My dog ate one can of food a day and ran around in circles for hours and still managed to gain weight.
Must be something with his thyroid.
Is this about the goddamn Loops meme? Because I really, really fucking hate that one.
This one always irks me. It shouldn't be rude if you tell someone they need to lose weight. You're looking out for their health. This has nothing to do with being mean, a bully or being rude.
Now. If you don't like to hear it? That's because of your own insecurities. That has nothing to do with the other person.
I agree with the gist here, but:
Has anyone seen Beau Nugget the tabby? It's on YouTube. That poor kitty.
what the hell? are you the OP of that post? what reason did they give for deleting it? what rule did it break?
You do not need to insult the moderator here. Your post did not follow the sub rules.
Sorry for calling you out. I was mistaken.
Lots of triggered and rude mods around reddit lately.
It's so frustrating that people don't see the parallels at all. I had an overweight cat. I honestly thought it was just old age and joint pain. She was miserable and couldn't run or jump or climb her tower.
Took her to the vet and they're like "She's fat. Stop over feeding her garbage food."
A year later she's lost like 3lbs (which is a lot for a cat). She runs and plays with our younger cat and kicks his butt. She regularly climbs to the top of her 6' tall cat tower without assistance. She jumps up on furniture by herself.
Now imagine if I, an obese human, lost 30% of my weight. I bet I could run faster, and jump, and play and have more stamina too. If I stopped over feeding myself garbage food.
That’s because the health & longevity of fat people involves being less fat. There’s no way around it.
It must be absolutely exhausting to be a doctor when you have to deal with people like this. Just the way this was phrased - seriously, people? It’s not like there’s a barricade of angry doctors outside hospitals, barring overweight people from entering.
They come in wanting solutions, then refuse to listen when you tell them that they actually hold the solution completely in their own two hands. Where do you even start with someone who flat-out refuses to hear the truth? Can we make ~truthphobia~ or ~realityphobia~ counterarguments? Something to say to all these HAES people who throw hissy fits and shriek about fatphobia, when their doctor does nothing more than dare to tell them that weight loss would cure what ails them?
I can discuss the health and longevity of fat people.
I've got this nagging cough & persistent chest pains....wait, what? What does it matter how much I smoke?! Treat me like one of your non-smoking patients, you tobbacophobe!!! /s
Made with Love in New York City, New Jersey & Monterrey, Mexico.