Serving size: Chosen arbitrarily small to make the macros look better. Also so some products can be called "0 kcal"
For people with particular problems with food, the amount of food it would take to satisfy their cravings is infinite. :-( This is why suggested serving sizes are necessary.
If I ate as much of the doritos as I wanted to satisfy my cravings for said doritos, the bag would be gone in one sitting. That is a shit-ton of calories wasted on doritos for someone who only gets 1200 calories/day.
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Serving sizes aren't a judgment, they are simply a means of communicating information. This person seems to understand that different people need different amounts, so what's the solution? Individualized nutrition labels? Even if America standardized to per 100 grams, that's still an arbitrary number not related to how much each individual needs to eat. I do believe the American labels are at least doing a decent job by recommending the amount that is consumed.
Why do fat-logicers think that science is a personal attack?
What if the amount of cereal it takes to satisfy one’s cravings ends up being the whole box?
THIS BIT OF FATLOGIC
and then they wonder why they can't lose weight.
Kinda sanity? I would love it if American nutrition labels also included info per 100g or 1oz or whatever, and then people can make their own decisions about what a "serving" is for them.
I mean, serving sizes are often ridiculous marketing ploys used to manipulate the perceived nutritional value of food and have very little to do with how much you "should" eat. But they aren't an attack on you. They are a (flawed) way of communicating what is in the food.
As an adult who can do extremely basic math, whether I eat 1 serving size or 10 is irrelevant to my caloric intake. I don't cry about it either way.
To be fair, I'm thin and eat a lot. I eat a way larger serving size as normal as I'm vegan. serving size depends on diet, if you exercise lots you should have larger serving sizes. if you have a thyroid problem, you should adjust your serving sizes accordingly.
The irony is that serving sizes are actually mandated to be adjusted based on what people consume i.e. enlarged if the normal is to eat more than one serving size
By law, serving sizes must be based on how much food people actually consume, and not on what they should eat.
It's funny that they chose Cheerios as the picture. One serving of Cheerios is 29g, 110 calories. I know because it's a favourite snack of mine. Is that filling? No! It's cereal. It's a snack. If I was eating Cheerios as a meal it'd take probably 3 servings to fill me up and I know that wouldn't sustain me for very long.
I often eat more than a serving size of some foods, they're not exactly supposed to be a set amount you should always eat for all foods, but in order to communicate nutrition information there has to be a baseline amount to reference.
„Brain Space“ - i don’t think the Brain works like you think It does....
Joke's on you, honey. I don't have a social life anyway.
Brain space, huh? Makes me better at math 🤣
I'd rather have possible anxiety about food in social situations than the anxiety of not fitting in a booth, or breaking a chair, or not fitting on a roller coaster ride, or any other anxiety inducing things that I have no control over. Joke's on you, though, because I don't have any anxiety over food in social situations either.
Your brain has plenty of capacity that you aren't using. Logging your food into an app or spreadsheet isn't going to overtax it.
Even if your body doesn't know the difference (whatever that means), your brain is capable of keeping it straight.
Maybe you should delve into some non-eating social interactions.
Yeah, you should stop doing that.
You learned some incorrect information. And fault aside, your body is your responsibility.
Being at war with my own body?
Can I blow a little trumpet every time l unleash the forces of diet culture on my defenceless body?
Because that sounds like a lot of fun!
For me, I had to relearn better eating habits. I was really thin growing up and active and never had to worry about what I ate. That changed as I got older. I’ve been slowly and steadily losing weight and honestly? When done right (I’ve tried it the wrong ways too) it’s not that hard. It was just a matter of being real with myself about how much I was eating, not going to an extreme and not throwing in the towel the minute I slipped up. These people are whiners.
And lest you think that my 'online diagnosis' is misinformed, I also scored 165 on an online IQ test, so it would appear that I am the smart one, not the doctor, regardless of what Johns Hopkins says (whoever the hell that is).
This has to be satire. Can anyone really think an online self diagnosis is accurate?
They did a BuzzFeed quiz, didn't they?
There are two great self diagnosis tests you can do.
The push-up test and the sitting-rising test. AT 300 pounds and most likely female there is no chance they can pass either.
You’re healthy until you’re not. And if the main advice your doctor gives you is to lose weight and you then resort to online self-diagnosis, you’re probably not all that healthy.
I’m over 300 pounds AND still healthy
That reads like even she is surprised. If you feel like you’re beating the odds, your lifestyle probably isn’t healthy.
The average height for an American woman is 5'4". At 300 lbs. that’s a BMI of 51.5. But let’s say she’s 6': that’s still a BMI of 40.7. Either one would place her in the category of ‘morbidly obese’.
Sad thing is, this person is probably young, most likely under the age of 35.
So right now, they are "healthy," if the definition of health is "currently not suffering a chronic or painful illness." Doctor probably sees a dozen of these people every week, and they have no medical problems yet, so all he can tell them is to lose weight so they will not have diabetes, joint pain, high blood pressure, and fatty organs in five-ten years.
But in their denial, all they can think is "I have no diseases, but I STILL am told to lose weight? Outrageous!"
Yet in ten years, they will be blaming the same doctor for not doing anything to prevent it when they develop the suite of obesity related health problems.
I follow a FA type on Twitter (we have IRL mutuals but I don’t mute because I enjoy the WTF of her fatlogic.)
She was complaining recently about fatphobia at the doctor and being treated differently to thin people and her GP had refused her medication. Cue screeches of indignation in the FA echo chamber.
Turns out she had a cold and the GP refused to give her antibiotics exactly like they would with a thin person.
They also didn’t mention her weight but it was still fatphobia somehow. Like she genuinely believes there are magic pills for thin people colds that they deny existence of when your BMI hits a certain point?
I suspect her doctors do treat her differently in one crucial way which is that they don’t indulge her bullshit any more than they indulge flat earthers or anti vaxxers or if I came in and asked for leech therapy because I once read about it.
That’s not discrimination. That’s being treated like an adult.
Wow, it’s almost as if medicine effectiveness is dictated by weight..
Well then just call me a fat phobic bigot!
If you don't support #haes then you're a fatphobic bigot
If you preemptively go through life believing that people can't disagree with you for reasons other than hatred and bigotry before you've even heard their arguments or why they think what they think, you're a classic ideologue and that's not a good thing. There are some people who reject HAES/FA who are genuinely fatphobic assholes, but any sensible, clear-eyed, dispassionate person would understand that people can have good faith disagreements about this movement --- and any ideas and movements.
I don't think HAES is always a function of bad motivations: I get where they're coming from with some things even if I think they're addressing those problems in the wrong way and even though I definitely think their most popular public figures have taken HAES to its worst possible logical extreme. (Hi, how you doin' Tess?)* That doesn't mean that I think every single person who is involved with HAES is a bad faith actor.
You know, I get inboxed and comments from time to time from people in other subreddits who find my post history here and who get in touch to all caps yell at me for hating fat people and lesbians (since the problem of obesity in the lesbian community has impacted my life directly and in serious ways, I am a bit partially focused on that aspect of HAES). I know other people who post on this forum have sometimes had similar experiences in comments sections. It's not necessary and it tells me that they've spent less time trying to find out what anti-HAES people think than we have spent trying to find out what they think. I've noticed that we can lay out their arguments before rejecting them but they just default to the assumption that we're ignorant and hateful. They'e only undermining themselves by not engaging generously with the critiques of their preferred theory: dismissing counterarguments unheard is how you limit the scope of your learning. They'd still probably dismiss my arguments and be unpersuaded once they heard my arguments, but they might find some understanding that there's some minimal value in what we say and, in any event, they could stand down a bit from the idea that the only reason to oppose HAES is because you hate fat people and want them to die.
\Yes, that was me shamelessly pretending to be Alan Roberts.)
I need to remember that 'Trump' can be used as a verb, I was very confused as to what self diagnosis has to do with Donald Trumps Doctor. 🙈
Has to be satire. Please.
I am so healthy that receiving the wrong treatment from doctors is a regular occurrence in my life...
This is satire for sure. I understand that each individual sentiment here exists in sincere FA/HAES advocates, but this post is almost a perfect bingo. It's just a series of easy to target FA tropes strung together. Almost exactly one per sentence.
I'm so healthy! Well, except for that 45% of the time when I'm sick. But it's not because of my weight!
This must be satire... I just..
“I am healthy! I’m mean, my doctor doesn’t say it, BUT I DO!”
Well fat people shouldn’t have thier reality discounted just because it doesn’t fit a narrative.
Online Self Diagnosis:
Congrats, it looks like you are a-okay! Keep doing what you’re doing! You’re perfect as is!
I can see what they are saying:
If you are having uncontrollable food cravings, it may not be a sign that you have low willpower, rather that you are actually not getting enough fuel. In the context of a gym, it makes sense assuming everyone is working out. If you are working out hard, you do need increased fuel, or you will have bad cravings.
Of course, this only works if you assume it is directed at people who actually do work out regularly and already eat good diets.
Let's not pretend like this isn't a possibility, people can be a bit gung ho, especially when inexperienced, they may try to have a lifestyle change and do everything on the first day, diet/ gruelling routine etc.
It's not outside the possibility that poor planning in the kitchen is the cause of fatigue in the gym followed by food craving later on.
However, it's irresponsible to just leave this hanging without serious disclaimers, because everyone with a food addiction, a new gym membership and a poor work ethic will jump on this excuse as a reason to eat more.
I've been down that road myself when i was obese, saw that for some not eating enough was the cause of their fatigue/hunger pangs, and just convinced myself out of getting into shape by a couple more years.
Smarter food planning can help with these issues, it's not necessarily about eating more, it's about eating right for the situation.
It's not "more often" under eating, but it is one potential answer to issues you may be facing, there are a number of other more likely suspects, like a broken sense of satiety from years of over eating.
If you go for an extreme, unsustainable diet where you are actually under eating you will almost inevitably cheat, however good your willpower. So depending on the context I think thos is true. But I suspect we'll see it quoted out of context to justify large desserts far more than we'll see it taken appropriately as meaning your diet needs to be a longterm sustainable lifestyle
What they're told: Eat more vegetables
What they hear: Eat more
Following this line of thinking is exactly why it took me so long to actually start dropping the extra weight that had been frustrating me for so long. I was in a lot of women’s diet and fitness groups, and every time anyone would complain that they weren’t losing weight, in would come an entire fucking chorus of “You need to eat more!!” I believed that for a long time and spent months “cutting” on 1800 calories when I have a sedentary desk job and was working out 3-5 times a week max (usually more like 3), with only lifting and no cardio. Now that I’m eating 1200-1500 a day, surprise! The weight is finally coming off.
I wish it hadn’t taken until I was 35 to bust through that fat logic, but I’m glad I’ve now seen the light. This is a really, REALLY common belief, though. I know that many of the people spreading it are well-intentioned, but I wish there were a way to get through to them. I know firsthand how much it sucks to genuinely feel like you’re working hard on a lifestyle change but not seeing results, all because of crap like this.
Gym's aren't immune to stupid thinking. My gym - which is cool in the sense that it is solidly outfitted with barbells, racks, and benches, and the members are generally down to business types - also has a billboard that I swear is updated monthly by a kid who is a college freshman in Some Health Related Field who reads more magazines than textbooks. It is cringe. Judge a gym by who lifts there.
Likely some real obfuscation going on here as this is the only post that seems like fat logic. A lot of the other content on the page reads almost like r/IAmVerySmart
I’ve noticed that gym groups are usually pretty bad for fat logic. Stuff like thinking you can spot reduce fat and if you’re not losing fat, try eating more calories etc
Hahaha. My weight gain would like to have a word with this madness :(
I could see this maybe if they were referring specifically to building muscle rather than weight loss? I hope that’s what they meant.
So, I'm unhappy about my weight (But I claim otherwise, of course).
How can I solve this problem?
Oh, I know. Punish and silence everyone who found a solution.
I am so smart and mature!
Things I chose:
Things I did not choose:
The way that HAES nuts always try to make their cause comparable to real social issues like gay rights is just completely disgusting and disingenuous.
Nobody's being shocked or executed for being fat. They're comparing the fork and their inability to remove it from their hands to somebody's sexual preferences. They should sit the fuck down and at least try to be respectable for once.
Well, technically, being morbidly obese IS punished by death. Just not in the way they’re talking about...
Why are there so many genetically fat people in rich countries with cheap and easily accessible calories, while poorer areas with less access to convenience foods are slimmer?
Why is there so much more obesity in the West in less than one generation if people are genetically fat?
Hating myself and praying to be straight for years as a kid left me still queer as a daffodil.
Just not eating so hecking much for three years saved me from morbid obesity and halved my body weight.
But yeah, totes equivalent, FA movement. 🙄
1 in 6,000 doesn't sound impossible.
I hope for the opposite.
Eventually we need to get back to encouraging how much hard work can do and stop excusing ourselves with defeatist lies. If you want to look good and feel good, you have to put work in.
Things only get worse when we allow people to believe that they really are unable to change or that we must shift our beliefs to accommodate and idolize their lazy habits.
As a gay fat guy down 20 pounds and counting I find this to be fucking offensive. Overeating and not exercising was a fucking choice. Liking guys wasn't. Let's not fucking pretend.
The problem with the 1 in 6000 number is that it might be true, but that shouldn't be construed to mean that it's a biologically driven fact. They always leave out that it's a lack of sticking to new habits or a relapse in binging that leads to weight regaining.
And when "women do become men" (btw, such un-woke language about trans people, really, if you're going to make obesity part of the SJW tarpits, do it right) -- that is, when trans people transition, we should support them in that, even though it's quite uncommon.
I agree that in point of actual fact the majority of super morbidly obese people will never become healthy weight -- just like most people will never transition. But if anything that makes it more important to give those who want to do so the support and encouragement they need to make it happen.
And the reason most people don't transition and the reason most super morbidly obese people don't attain a healthy weight is the same -- they simply don't fucking want to.
It’s part of the push to become a protected class in the eyes of the law. In most places, you can’t fire — or choose not to hire — someone for their race, sexuality, etc. “Obese” is actually a protected class in some places but not many.
Edit: Typing on my phone is hard.
Edit 2: Clarifying due to the downvotes. I don’t condone this — I don’t think weight discrimination should be a thing. I don’t think obese people should be a protected class.
As someone who got up to 175 a few years ago then slowly worked back down to 130 (current 132) what is see is someone who is unwilling or unable to address their food addiction problem. "Genetically fat people"???? You mean people who don't burn calories?? Or just people who can't consume less calories than they burn for a sustained period. People who are incapable of doing caloric arithmetic.
Know what some gay people do in intolerant countries? They remain celebate. They choose not to have sex with anyone because it's too dangerous. If you're obese, you can choose not to overeat. Sex and eating are two extremely strong biological urges, but to pretend nobody has any control of these things is foolish. We are what we are. What we do about it is up to us.
Editing to add: I'm not saying it's right to force gay people to be celebate guys, holy shit, I'm saying that choice-- even if it's hard, terrible, or against your very nature-- is possible. I'm an overeater and will be until I die. I choose not to let it get the better of me. Addicts can choose not to use, alcoholics can choose not to drink. If you're hurting yourself--- STOP. Get as much help as you need, but you can stop whatever it is. The capacity for choice and self-determination was my point.
I’m picturing a chubby double helix and it’s kind of adorable.
"The fitting rooms are right over there ma'am."
“Well, if I’m smaller than average, and the average is in the middle, then ‘normal’ people probably would wear a medium, and people who are a little larger than average would wear a large. Maybe try the fabric store for a yard or three of fabric.”
Really, it sounds like she was just spoiling for a fight and made a point of walking up to a "skinny b*tch."
I actually have started to look for children's sizes. It's infuriating. I'm glad I can knit and have bought a roll of brown paper so I can start to make clothing patterns. I would kill for something like Brandy Melville for adults, because I can't wear crop shirts to the office, but I can buy their tops and at least make patterns from them that are the right length and narrow enough.
I'm 5'8"! I should not be a g/d XS! I remember when I was little and there was a petite store called 5-7-9. The women who shopped there were positively birdlike. Now, I'm a 4. At 5'8" and 125lb. Unbelievable.
Has anyone else noticed that “normal people” apparently means 2x now? When I was younger I legitimately couldn’t find a size L in a lot of places but how they’ll go up until xxl and they’ll complain about how “these clothes are not made for normal people”
I mean. I wear a size S, but that's vanity sizing. Imagine the sizes these people would be wearing if it weren't for vanity sizing... 10X?
I mean, if you work at a clothing store, guessing someone's size might be within your field of expertise. The reaction, on the other hand....
I wear an XS in women's sizes (and with vanity sizing, often even that's too big) and unisex sizes are pretty much always too big for me. Does that mean I'm abnormal? (I'm a 21.3 BMI so I'm hardly super skinny.)
Ugh. With vanity sizing small is still pretty big. I say this as someone who wears a small or extra small and yet doesn't have a small frame. I should be a medium... I'm a healthy medium sized person... but medium fits me like a tent.
Wow, the fucking entitlement. Lady, do you really have nothing better to do than treat retail workers like they’re stupid? How sad and bored are you with yourself and your life?
I usually assume I'm a size smaller in unisex than I am in women's, so the employee could've said that as a guideline
Expecting people, even retail workers, to know your size by looking at you, is a big ask. Some people are really bad with that sort of thing, and that's not even taking into account vanity sizing and how it can screw with 'expected' sizes anyway.
That said, while the customer's question was certainly a prime example of shopper's entitlement, I do think the worker's response was subpar. Saying your own size is unhelpful when the customer is obviously a different size, and going "well, I'm a small" could definitely come across as a dig, depending on tone and the thickness of the customer's skin. I'm not saying the customer was right to get offended, and of course not right for their escalation, but I do think them taking offense was relatively predictable.
This makes me think of WALL-E... a future where where all clothes come in one size "human"... which is round.
This is the logic of most posts on r/InstagramReality now tbh
I'm 5'1, 140 pounds (down from 160), and I'm already a size 4. A healthy BMI for someone my size would be between 100-130 pounds, and I don't know what I'm going to do for clothes once I get there.
oNLy FaT wiMMiN aRe ReAL WImMin!!!!
I never knew skinny shaming was also a thing but Reddit has shown me otherwise. I'm not a fan when I say I want to lose weight (not that much weight, maybe only 5-10 more pounds, since I'm within the weight range I want to be in already) , and I always have someone saying that I shouldn't lose more weight, I should go eat a hamburger instead.
I'd just say a medium or large if youre particularly tall
I bought an extra small jumper at American Eagle on the weekend ... it was on clearance and then 60 percent off so I thought I would try it on and see ... it not only fits but is a bit lose even. There is nothing extra small about me (except my boobs ... those were the first to go lol).
Because she definitely wouldn't have been offended if OP had just guessed and gone too high.
My response would have been "normal people would probably wear a medium"...
Eating intuitively is fine until you inevitably venture into the murky world of rationalization and temptation.
For example, if you're not hungry before you went to work but now there, you see someone brought in cake. You wouldn't have wanted cake if it wasn't there, but it is, so you 'feel' like having a piece.
Okay, fine, I'll listen to my body.
Come again, please?
No, no, no, we'd develop an unhealthy relationship with food if we did that! Whatever that is!
You know what, you're being unreasonable. I'd rather consult with my brain. Have a nice day!
If I didn’t “restrict” I’d easily be 500-600 lbs. I can essentially eat non-stop. I don’t understand the idea of just not controlling yourself. How has it come to this?
I needed to restrict Christy. So I did, and I’ve never felt better.
Who's erasing your humanity and basic human rights? How?
That sounds like a true tragedy and I wonder why you're so vague about it.
Just admit you're jelly of someone being skinny and are getting back at them by demeaning their struggles.
And yet when they talk about what basic human rights they're being deprived of, it's things like "Finding cute clothes in my side" or "Fitting comfortably into seats" or "Being able to eat whatever I want in public without being judged" or "Not having doctors tell me to lose weight." It just shows the level of privilege that those are your concerns.
Great. Another discrimination goes with this "institutional power" bs.
Thin people can experience being shamed for their body but they can't be body-shamed
Neither should occur, but I fail to see how they're not the same. Shaming is a terrible way to help anyone in any situation.
No one is being deprived of their basic human rights because they're fat, Jesus fucking Christ on a bike. Example; you aren't denied the right to marriage because you're fat. Well, unless you count "the person I'm interested in won't date me because they're not attracted to my body type".. which at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they count that as legitimate oppression.
Boo fuckin hoo.....
Genuine question: what does it mean to "erase someone's humanity"? Taken literally I'd assume that was a fancy way to say you killed someone, but I know that's not what they mean. How can you even argue against such an amorphous statement?
Everytime I see some nonsense about how obese people are oppressed, I think it can't possibly get anymore delusional, yet it always does.
Funny how oblivious they are to the outright shaming of anyone trying to lose weight and get healthy
What is this person even complaining about? That this specific video wasnt meant for her?
I wish people would realize that since there are endless physical variations of human beings (various combinations of short, tall, fat, skinny, immobile, missing limbs, etc) no list, guide, or tutorial could possibly be 100% inclusive of everyone. If something isn't meant for you, just keep scrolling.
I always find fatlogic even worse when their own internal logic is flawed. That is, it is one thing to start with false info (CiCO doesn't work) and go from there to end up somewhere wrong but still logically consistent. It's another to start from their false premises and not even be able to make a logically valid argument.
In this case, their premise is that fat bodies are just different. Not better or worse or caused by anything. Just different. So why complain about a blog devoted to one body type and not another? Do I as a man complain about every blog or post about women's fashion or makeup or even tall men or long hair or anything else that is not for me? Of course not.
Aren't guides like that mostly for short women? Because I'm too long and curvy to fit into children's sizes, even now that I've slimmed down. I do sometimes feel sad when I walk by the children's section and see super cute stuff I'd like to wear, too, though. But being 1,71 m and a 32G I'll never fit shirts meant for 12-year-olds.
I have a hack! Lose some weight.
I know several women (from all weight ranges) who can fit into children’s shoes and buy them either to save money or because they get a kick out of fun styles. I’m mildly bummed that I can’t do the same...but then MOST people I know can’t, either.
I can’t even imagine being triggered, let alone triggered enough to write and complain.
You could also say a hack for fat women (well, up to a certain size) is to shop in the men’s department, because it can be less expensive. Men’s shoes are wider.
Marilyn Wann writes about wearing bedsheets as caftans. There’s a hack for fat women.
I buy kids shoes. But they have no arch support.
"People who occupy bodies"
Nothing says body positivity more than pretending your body is just a vessel you're in.
a bit triggered
Yeah, fuck you too buddy. How about you get back to me when you get a diagnosis.
Something something asking to perform labor something.
I'm getting really annoyed at this attitude that advice is bad if it can't be used by literally everyone. Like, okay, sometimes people present advice in bad, clueless ways, like saying you can afford a house if you don't eat out every day. But criticizing advice because not everyone can use it seems a little toxic, like, it gets used by crabs who want to promote a mentality of helplessness.
Here's a cost-saving hack for people who occupy differently-shaped bodies: Eat less.
They talk about their bodies as if they're a vengeful spirit taking control of a Gunman.
This whole 'occupying a fat/ differently-shaped body' etc annoys the shit out of me. Why do they all feel the need to call it that? Like, they're dissociating from their body. You don't live in or occupy your body, you ARE your body. If someone touches me, touches my arm, they're touching ME. If I have sex with someone, they're having sex with ME. If they're all for fat and loving their fat and everything, shouldn't they see that fat as part of themselves?? Just like I do with my fat (although I have a lot less of it), muscles, bones and skin. IT's just WEIRD to see your body like a different entity.
Like, even if your religious and believe in body vs soul, i've never heard them refer to it as 'living in their body', like it's a house. I can't move the windows of my home with my mind, at will, but I can move my own arm. It's just WWEEEEIIIIRDDD... Can someone explain this to me?
What is with these people saying they are occupying their bodies!? It’s sooo weird.
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