Theres no such thing as toxic masculinity. Only masculinity. There is toxic behaviour and this is performed by both the sexes.
Toxic masculinity is nothing more than the demonising of ordinary male behaviour or they try to make it out that normal behaviour that doesn't actually harm men or women is somehow the root cause of all of men's problems as well as women's which is why they make the claim "Feminism helps men too!" so often.
I've been pondering the bullshit of toxic masculinity quite a bit thanks to the Gillette ad because of the way they presented it. Feminists can't quite seem to explain what toxic masculinity is by their own standards. They either take totally innocent behaviour by men and blow it out of proportion, or they take bad behaviour by men and apply it to the whole gender which they claim to hate being done to them and other groups they 'protect'.
All anyone normal needs to know is it's a bullshit term made up specifically to shame men. I think one of the reasons they don't have any coherent message with the term is they don't know what it fucking means themselves so they're just winging it with each propaganda cycle.
Toxic masculinity is not a real thing. Masculinity in and of itself is not toxic. The behaviours that people like to lump into this category are simply toxic behaviours, these can, and usually are exhibited by both genders.
It's just a way to blame the male gender as a whole for the shit behaviour of a few.
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No and no.
The concept of "toxic masculinity" is utter nonsense. But those who believe in it will not be deterred by this miniature protest... they will only consider it more evidence that they are right.
And for those who don't believe that so-called toxic masculinity exists, the jacket is little more than a shout into the wind. It's no more a counter-argument than the patches on a punk kid's jacket are a counter-argument to capitalism or the guy on the corner's cardboard signs are a counter-argument to the government.
Masculinity can't ever be toxic. It's the essence of being male. Y chromosomes are not toxic even though feminists are determined to claim they are.Also one can't claim masculinity is toxic and then redefine this to refer to certain undefined behaviours. Masculinity is not just a set of behaviours. It's always amusing how feminists love to wave their dictionaries around over one word found in there but then there is never a dictionary to be found the rest of the time.
“This is a perfect analogy because the target is fake and he put it there himself”
Masculinity can be toxic. It doesn’t have to be.
What do you mean, "does this serve as a counterargument"? Are you referring to the picture. If so, please explain the thought that his clothing supports toxic masculinity,
"Toxic masculinity" is an example of a vocabulary hijack. Originally, the term referred to the set of norms that cause men to act against their own self-interest. "Never hit a girl", "women and children first", that kind of thing. Essentially, the 'toxic' thing was basing your personal validation on the approval of women/society at large. The mythpoetics contrasted this with 'deep masculinity' which was supposed to be about self-validation, but in practice amounted to drum circle and self-help book BS. These days, it seems to stand for any behavior not solely focused on making the lives of women better (ie The exact opposite of its original intent). It's the same thing that happened with "rape culture"
This whole debate is actually caused by toxic femininity.
Spreading false rumors, using public shame, feigning victimhood, etc all to control others is very much toxic feminity. And that's all this "toxic masculinity" nonsense is: using shame and gossip to control men.
I think toxic masculinity is a real thing and some peoples can use it as an argument but it still exists. Men who don't allow themselves to cry for example or start a useless fight for your honor. I knew some guys like this we need to acknowledge that.
I’ve realized that anyone spreading “toxic” masculinity feels like they cannot properly compete with a stoic, determined, aggressive Male, so they use this argument to try and level the playing field. It only gives me more motivation to strive in life.
No one is talking about that sign not depicting a man and not saying men at work ? There are literally no gender defining features on that black blob figure and the words men at work aren't there as they aren't needed.
Am I in favour of no more men at work signs? Yeah probably, it a bit condescending to men and sexist. Just use the displayed sign as the alternative and the meaning is conveyed without the pitfalls of the words often attached.
are you sure that is a man and not a boyish woman in black yoga pants? what if the "man" on the sign just identified a as a woman?
Hey, they were a great band.
Promote and encourage more women to defy stereotypes? Hell yeah.
Tell men it’s not their responsibility in society to always take labour intensive jobs? Hell yeah.
Why are you against this?
because women want to break into those asphalt shoveling jobs and are prevented by sexist men /s
Like just replace men and male type words in that same ad with a minority or women and the entire ad falls apart
A man who had his family threatened.
Which I think is a bit more of an extreme reaction than complaining about an ad. At least nobody's trying to get it banned, like that Beach Body Ready ad.
But remember, to a bully, standing up to them is a sign of "weakness", and taking their nonsense is "strength". Ironically, these people are using the same sexist standards they claim they're fighting to shame men.
Remarkable. The Left truly hates men.
NOW has been fighting for decades to prevent equal parenting rights.
Feminist organizations left and right (including academics) created and pushed the Duluth model, which states that women only use violence in self defense. This means, that any police department trained in the Duluth Model are required to arrest the male, even if he is the one reporting being abused (because if she will only use violence in self defense, and she's using violence, obviously she's defending herself from him).
That's just two...
The UN organization for Gender Equality (UN Women) measures gender equality as women are doing as good or better than men.
Literally, it's gender equal if men are disadvantaged.
40 years of concealing, distorting and harassing people into thinking domestic abuse is only a womans issue. I've personally seen the effects, even supposed non-gendered crisis charities are set up only for women in the case of domestic abuse, and refuse and deny you are a victim when you are an abused man looking for help. Women initiate more altercations, and men finish more altercations being violent. Men make up about 1/3 of deaths. There's minor differences overall, most non-feminist places say it's about 60% women need the help, 40% men need the help. Children also get nothing if the abuser is a woman. In some places the only help men get is *anger management* to help recover, which I find the darkest thing... Women get billions in support (great in it's own right).. but men get almost nothing, and called "misogynists" for caring about these men. It's based on a long running feminist lie, on of the first pieces of activism laundered as "knowledge" on the now shown to be seriously fallible "grievance studies". It's making the personal (women victim blaming men they are abusing) political. On an institutional scale. Two members of my family died from abuse from women. It runs in the family, and I can tell you it comes from men and women alike. Bullying and controlling others is generational not gendered, just like school. And if you happen to only care for women, male members brutalised by their mother are now abusing their female partner.. so the cycle continues and keeps feminists with jobs and (female) patients, men just end up dying early or homeless if it's so bad they might have gone to a refuge. Trouble is, is created people like me who want to talk about it, and we're becoming ever more numerous as male abusers get the help they need but women stay at large. Basically its massively taboo for feminists to talk about their abuse of men (many feminists also were abused and/or are abusers hiding their abuse, hence the radical views, and explains what we see when they make the personal political) so it stays undercover, and report it's "100% females being brutalised" when they can get away with it. It's getting a little better but it shows you what feminism is really for.
While she'd probably not appreciate the source of the article, this has some gems in it.Similar hereAgain, you're probably better off not just sending the article and instead citing the primary sources, but consider the articles a shopping list, as it were.These are more insidious, in my mind, than a modern quote because it shows the kind of ideas that formed the inception of the movement, as opposed to the notion that it started pure and was somehow corrupted in the modern day.
Just answer: "So you are saying... not ALL women do this?"
If your 'friend' doesnt believe it, how come they arent simply going online to try debate feminists on Reddit?
Within seconds they'd see man hate, abuse, smears and anger to men.
Why do they need our help to see for themselves, if they genuinely actually are curious?
Hmm, randomly came across this... https://youtu.be/1oVyQGmD3d8Could be good.
Actually I got a solid one. They send death threats to Erin Pizzey (ex feminist), the founder if the Refuge movement and exile her as a traitor when she says that women can, sometimes, be abusers too, and that abused men should be helped too. Her criticism of feminism is spot on.
Birth of feminism in the US: meeting organizers passed a resolution declaring war on men and saying that men throughout all time and all societies had deliberately and repeatedly beaten and raped and attacked women just to fuck them over. Feminism is a hate movement.
Oh, it's a fucking thing sweetheart.
IDK why you keep saying 'women who...', when there are many male feminists. If it's feminists you really want to talk about, that's what you should say, not 'women', IMHO.
Anyway, this link has a lot of relevant info.: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g2eme/feminists_tell_you_that_the_solution_to_mens/
All of feminism is toxic. Women have always been more privileged than men.
Is she dense... By saying it doesn't exist she's proving your point...
I wanted to keep the title a bit brief. I saw this on r/MurderedByWords and it struck a bit of a chord with me.
I feel like this Men vs Feminist battle got out of hand a long time ago. Its more about punishing the other sex now it seems as opposed to fighting for equal rights and responsibility. The point was pushed further home when I made a different post a cpl days ago and people were responding "I guess Islam had it right", "We should lynch her". This kind of behavior is what we are trying to fight, not condone. This sub isn't about abusing women, but fighting for equality just like they are.
When it comes down to bullying and generally being a shitty person, both Women and Men have an opportunity to think about it and make a choice. Do you react in a toxic way or try to become better in the situation? Up to you really, but being a man or woman doesn't change that.
Fuuuuuuuck, you nuked her ass.
The real gender pay gap
Yea, and those Feminists are crying about pink shampoo with more ingredients being a few cent more expensive.
Why is there a price difference in the first place. Just... why?
I wouldn't give this place your business even if they only charged you the women's price. Fuck them
I always believed charging more or less based on gender is wrong. I hate how they have lady’s nights, but never men’s nights at least where I’m at. This kind of thing happens with women too with hair cuts and I get that women on average have long hair and men have short hair, but why is it that even if a woman have very short hair and a man has very long hair they still charge the woman more and the man less? It should just be illegal to do this as it is discriminatory.
Depends on what/where the event is.
The place just wants for women there, I get it. What I have a problem with is if men are advantages anywhere, feminists have to come in and make it equal. They want their advantages where they can get them, and want equality where they can’t.
Woman: "quit bring a cry baby and man up"
Men: Mans up
Woman: WAHHH TOXIC MASCULINITY
I love all the comments that say “guys that are offended by this must have tiny dicks” do you really not see how you’re reinforcing the exact thing you’re trying to get rid of? Most of those comments are from women as well
Nice. People like that really need to learn something for once in their lives.
Yeah, it's ironic how these fuckers don't even realize they are doing the very thing they say is 'toxic masculinity'. Tells you all you need to know about the entire situation. It's a progressive attack against men and progressives bash and shame those who don't like it, perpetuating the very thing they pretend to fight against.
They say not showing emotions is toxic.When you show emotions they are disgusted and shaming you .."poor baby it is afraid" .You cannot win the argument in rational way.From my experience of 30 years of marriage women don't like their husbands be insecure and show emotions like women, they are turned off(they consider you a mamas boy not a man to count on),they want to feel protected and secured.Moreover when they are emotive they want rock support, not whining and crying together in tandem.
Another thing what they say sometimes is opposite of what they really want.They think you should read their mind and know already what to do, no need for her to tell you that overtly.
All these things means that they value "toxic" masculinity in a man regardless what they say.
Deleted original and took names out as suggested by a few.
Silly white male, it's only harassment and bullying when men do it.
This entire agenda is DESIGNED so you CAN'T WIN.
It's like a leading question, like, "Did you enjoy murdering the mailman?"
If you say you don't appreciate being called a rapist evil white man, feminists simply reply, "SEE THIS PROVES YOU'RE A RAPIST EVIL WHITE MAN BC YOU DON'T LIKE BEING CALLED A RAPIST EVIL WHITE MAN!"
As others suggested this is r/murderedbywords matterial.
SJWs have no self-awareness, so they don't see the irony in shaming men by calling them "man baby".
“Aww look at the little slit, all offended because she thinks men are the source of all her failings in life. How cute”
Not a fan of r/murderedbywords, but this is epic candidate.
That YouTube channel gives me cancerous aids every time it’s brought up in my feed. Chunk Yager can have a nice tall glass of GoFuckYourself
Haha, that is a tight response dude
Nice come back.
I'm not even in America yet I frequently see women's response to men not liking the ad being "oh you feel threatened? that's cute".
From a marketing perspective I don't get it...Is Gillette's end game here to just sacrifice the men's division and try to get all of the women's market? I know they're getting killed by cheaper better products (shave club, etc...). Maybe they gave up on the Men's products?
Sounds like toxic femininity there
Why do women feel the need to take away everything good in a man's life? They're already doing that in divorces
Masculinity isn’t a problem, and we should be shifting the narrative to that instead of accepting their position.
I don't think she could have reinforced your point any better. Also, thank you for taking the high road on the response. All eyes are on our reactions currently and if we state our objection with reason and class they will have no ammunition against us.
That looked a lot like toxic femininity to me.
It’s so perfect, I don’t think you could’ve faked a better response.
That is how almost every single positive response for the Gillette video goes.
They can't simply say "I don't find this offensive."
They NEED to say "I don't find it offensive, and if you do you are displaying your poor fragile male ego, and you are part of the problem."
They can NOT keep themselves from shaming.
It's has become to go-to tactic of the left and it's on full display here.
I used to be excited when I caught their double standards but it gets boring over time...
It feels like these people got blinders on, I’m so happy I recovered from being a leftist sjw type person...
Company tries to boost sales with a tone deaf commercial because they want to pander to what they perceive to be the mainstream ideology.
Company fails spectacularly.
Assholes who share that ideology start screaming.
Also if you check my history you’ll find a comment of mine saying “this is literally racism” in reply to a guy letting everyone know they’re “white snowflakes” for not explaining that “gringo” is a derogatory word. Still hasn’t been removed by mods, lol.
I find this a lot when you point out a situation that is racism towards white people, you just get the classic “ohh poor oppressed white male”.
I recognize that profile pic, this "woman" has been pretty active.
Classic example of toxic femininity. Looks like an average feminist.
You nailed it. These cunts don't care about truth or reality though.
At this point it's fairly obvious that it's toxic feminism that's the problem.
Epic response! These 3rd wave feminists act like only men raise children. I've seen misogyny perpetuated by women, sometimes they're even worse than misogynistic men!!!
really well said
Check your discord man
This is great and all but can we talk about your notifications? C'mon man.
Share more of that conversation if it continued! Please
And that my friend is toxic behavior from a female.
just further proves that women don’t know what they want
The 98% of the people belittling dudes for criticizing commercials are hypocrite cowards.
Gillette :let's offend 80% of our actual user baseUser base :looks at another productGillette :x use me what the fuck
You are damned if you do and damn if you don't because men are terrible and this is lifetime.
Its satisfying that im starting to see less cucks on these threads on fb
Oh damn, this belongs in r/MurderedByWords.
Toxic feminist destroyed by facts and logic.
Nicely done! 👍
They are trying to give us the choice between Toxic Masculinity, or Fragile Masculinity. I reject both terms.
Jesus, what a bitch.
Stupid cunt...that is all.
Wtf even is thatWe are literally getting bullied
Im saying its ok to hit all women, but can we fucking agree that just like some men, some women need their fucking asses handed to them?
There's a good cream called Biafine, it really helps with 3rd degree burns.
It really is amazing how much people follow "trends" and or "ideals" instead of the critical thinking to actually believe in them.
See it all the time with "im very open minded pro choice lgbtq rights" someone says something sexist against women "you can smell the virginity from this comment" like what? or "i want men to speak up more" speaks up more "whoa whoa check your privledge"...that totally doesn't shut down conversation.....
Head, meet nail.
Good thing Gillette has a whole page on how to treat burns: https://gillette.com/en-us/shaving-tips/how-to-shave/razor-burn
She is gonna need it after that one.
A lot of comments I saw was “they deleted my comment, cunts”What a shitshow
What if the lack of fathers is effecting women as much as men? Maybe a positive male role model would open their eyes and also help stop their echo chamber of hate?
I love these women who try to say man up. WTF does a woman know about being a man? NOTHING if you say to a woman that she should behave like a woman she will rant and rave about how a man won't pigeon hole her and she will be anything she wants blah blah....but for some idiotic reason she thinks she has the entitlement to tell you to be a man. Next time a woman says aww (insert mockery) just play along and say aww woman us threatenrd by a man with an opinion.
Well thats the point isnt it? No matter what you say, a woman will try to get you to shut up. But why do care what the opinion of an oppressive misandrist is anyway? By letting them censor your God given right to defend you and yours, all you do is empower the bully. We all know they cant win the argument on its own laurels, so they seek way to manipulate you into holding back and letting then get to you. They can call me whatever they want, they are the lowest form of humans and therefore I care not what their opinion is. Society and television make you second guess and censor yourself...your words, your feelings, your thoughts. Dont fall victim to the trap. Remember that Misandry is far more prevalent than misogyny but they leave that part out to make you more pliable. Stand firm and remember you are a man, they want to strip you down and control your very thoughts.
Has anyone else started to embrace it?
Yeah, I'm toxicly masculine. Shut your mouth, bitch.
I vote for the extinction of the human race, fuck feminists, girls are just as evil as guys
Someone tell that cunt to shut it.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you feminism...
She's merely emphasizing what you said.
She is conditioned by feminist propaganda to perceive men as the enemy, that we should shoulder the blame for all bad things. She wants to maintain the trend of demonizing men in the media while turning a blind eye to the increasingly common, reprehensible female behavior.
You almost have to love the cognitive dissonance of how women can decry toxic masculinity in one breath then without blinking an eye turn around and use toxic masculinity tactics to belittle a man's manhood because he disagrees with her. I guess you could point this out but I fear the irony would be lost on them.
i'm sorry maybe this will get downvoted to hell but i genuinely am not sure what the problem with this ad is. i don't think it's pushing ALL responsibility onto men to raise/teach their sons, it's just asking fathers to be a good role model because your son looks up to you as a man (of course, a son will look up to their mother as well, but they will relate more to their father given a healthy family dynamic). it's not giving men all the responsibility, it's just asking you to step up and speak up when you see certain things happening. yes, the ad primarily focuses on men, but that doesn't detract from the message it is sending at all. they could've added women in the ad, but it would've made it less focused, because the ad is calling for men to be a part of a movement to raise their kids "better". of course, women should be part of the movement as well but the target audience is men so it makes sense that men are the primary subjects of the video.
Clear your notifications please.
I both agree toxic elements of masculinity exist (being overly-stoic, violence, 'playing hard to get', etc.) and think this whole sub is being over-reactive about this.
Sure there are certainly elements of toxic femininity (treating other women like shit, manipulative behavior, getting a kid to financially dominate your partner, etc.) and it is a double standard, but that's not what this sub says. This sub says there aren't toxic elements of masculinity and simultaneously gets offended (which this sub also makes fun of people for) about an ad.
In addition, try to not use the logical fallacy that is lewis's law ('comments on an article about feminism justify it' just swap feminism with mens rights), it's an easy way of shutting down your opponents and creating an echo chamber and sense of victory when someone just disagrees. I hate the idea of a law where dissent proves a point, it is the opposite of good discourse.
I am an egalitarian, and would call myself an MRA to those who wouldn't know the first term. I participate in this sub often enough and agree with the premise, and would be more than willing to discuss this, and would in fact, enjoy it
It all comes down to this: Would an ad be acceptable it told women not to throw their children in the dumpster? If it told them that women should not lie about taking birth control? If it told them to not smoke or drink when pregnant? To not raise boys that end up in prison by a huge margin (men raised by single mothers end up in prison much more than men raised by two parents).
There is no chance it would ever be acceptable. Please carry on attacking white men. Let's increase the suicide rate more. Let's increase depression more.
The reason it hasn’t been banned yet is because some major religions like Judaism and Islam still practice it - and no one wants to offend them.
So you're telling me that cutting off part of our pleasure organ has negative consequences? You should seek help, that's impossible! -People who profit from forced male genital cutting
It would be more similar if they cut the whole tip of your dick off. Jesus Christ you guys can we not have a sane comparison here?
But it's not the same...
Brandon looks like hes been overdoing it on the soy dogs.
Made with Love in New York City, New Jersey & Monterrey, Mexico.