Libertarian

Page 1 of 197

Well I, I, I don't know....

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Oct 19,2019, 11:59am

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  • Based_news
    13 points Oct 19,2019, 12:12pm

    If it happened, unfortunate moment. That said, it's not like you need to be able to list specific violations to realize that the President's personal lawyer, a private citizen, involving himself in government diplomatic business is not kosher.

  • WeAreLiveIn321
    5 points Oct 19,2019, 12:08pm

    Do you have a link to the article or video?

  • thehyrulehero21
    1 points Oct 19,2019, 8:27pm

    op is a nazi

COMMENTS

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  • Based_news
    13 points Oct 19,2019, 12:12pm

    If it happened, unfortunate moment. That said, it's not like you need to be able to list specific violations to realize that the President's personal lawyer, a private citizen, involving himself in government diplomatic business is not kosher.

  • WeAreLiveIn321
    5 points Oct 19,2019, 12:08pm

    Do you have a link to the article or video?

  • wrenchface
    1 points Oct 19,2019, 7:12pm

    Is r the Donald leaking more than normal today?

  • thehyrulehero21
    1 points Oct 19,2019, 8:27pm

    op is a nazi

● ● ●

When “no u” isn’t a viable comeback

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Oct 19,2019, 6:48pm

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  • lemonparty
    2 points Oct 19,2019, 7:08pm

    The Ruskies never thought they'd get this kinda mileage out of four grand worth of facebook ads.

    If you could bottle this paranoia and use it as an energy source you'd solve global warming

  • GenitalDiddler
    2 points Oct 19,2019, 7:43pm

    Everyone I dont like works for russia

COMMENTS

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  • lemonparty
    2 points Oct 19,2019, 7:08pm

    The Ruskies never thought they'd get this kinda mileage out of four grand worth of facebook ads.

    If you could bottle this paranoia and use it as an energy source you'd solve global warming

  • GenitalDiddler
    2 points Oct 19,2019, 7:43pm

    Everyone I dont like works for russia

● ● ●

Chinese censorship aside, the leaked draft of Trump’s executive order to "censor the internet" is not a revelation. He talked about doing so during a campaign speech back in 2015.

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • evident_lee
    10 points Oct 14,2019, 10:03am

    Amazing how when you elect a fascist that wants to be King or dictator that he starts trying to take away basic freedoms. Who could have seen that coming.

  • spatial_interests
    0 points Oct 14,2019, 12:45am

    He is just a puppet of Aleksandr Dugin, after all. As is the entire planet, apparently. That chaos magick is something else, I tell you what.

  • Rtffa
    -5 points Oct 14,2019, 2:09am

    Chinese censorship aside

    I wonder why you'd want to put Chinese censorship aside, OP?

COMMENTS

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    1 points Oct 13,2019, 10:05pm

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  • Secondhand-politics
    36 points Oct 13,2019, 10:52pm

    Fantastic.

    He couldn't settle for stealing property and taking guns away from people, now he's going after free speech too?

    I'm going to need another cup of apple cider.

  • RubeGoldbergMachines
    17 points Oct 13,2019, 10:22pm

    The quote is from this 2015 campaign speech at the 37m29s mark:

    https://youtu.be/q-3WBVB0_Tw?t=2249

    And here's a report on his drafted EO:

    Leaked Draft of Trump Executive Order to 'Censor the Internet' Denounced as Dangerous, Unconstitutional Edict

    Here are a couple of key points...

    We’ve been told for years that The Terrorists “hate our freedoms,” yet we cannot seem to rid ourselves of those who think the solution is to voluntarily abolish those freedoms ourselves.

    Source: https://theintercept.com/2015/12/29/those-demanding-free-speech-limits-to-fight-isis-pose-a-greater-threat-to-u-s-than-isis/

    Look, we're also concerned about the growing power that mega-platforms like Facebook and Twitter have to control online speech.

    But this draft Executive Order would make that situation SO much worse, by opening a pandora's box of government censorship.

    Source: https://twitter.com/fightfortheftr/status/1160549502597718022

    Edit: a link

  • Bruce_G
    15 points Oct 14,2019, 1:46am

    MOST

    LIBERTARIAN

    PRESIDENT

    EVER

  • evident_lee
    10 points Oct 14,2019, 10:03am

    Amazing how when you elect a fascist that wants to be King or dictator that he starts trying to take away basic freedoms. Who could have seen that coming.

  • spatial_interests
    0 points Oct 14,2019, 12:45am

    He is just a puppet of Aleksandr Dugin, after all. As is the entire planet, apparently. That chaos magick is something else, I tell you what.

  • Rtffa
    -5 points Oct 14,2019, 2:09am

    Chinese censorship aside

    I wonder why you'd want to put Chinese censorship aside, OP?

● ● ●

Suuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeiiiii fuck China

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

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    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:27pm

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  • Opcn
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 6:35pm

    So, I get the piglets, what is “Trump” doing in this situation?

  • jugpug
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:51pm

    Funny thing is that the us has been doing the same for so long

COMMENTS

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  • Opcn
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 6:35pm

    So, I get the piglets, what is “Trump” doing in this situation?

  • jugpug
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:51pm

    Funny thing is that the us has been doing the same for so long

● ● ●

Fuck china.

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

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  • anonpls
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 7:14pm

    I was thinking earlier that it's a bit counter productive to say "Fuck China".

    It puts Chinese people on the defensive and plays into the CCP's goals with their propaganda. Think of all the fox news articles going on about Muslim Imam's shouting "death to america" for example.

    If you say "fuck the CCP" however you create that all important buffer between the actual people and the government with is very helpful to cut the CCP's propaganda at the knees while simultaneously giving our side's propaganda a pretty powerful tool imo.

    Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.

  • cpt-ry
    7 points Oct 12,2019, 6:18pm

    Here take your deserved karma points, for such a courageous post.

  • dacspike
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:17pm

    Is that leaked art for the next Hearthstone expansion?

  • Hoontah050601
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 8:03pm

    What exactly do you mean by "fuck China"?

  • TheSoftestTaco
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 8:08pm

    This is about as edgy as "Fuck Trump"posting, we all hate the Chinese govt.

    Also like the other guy said, fuck the chinese govt, not the chinese people

  • PostModernCommie
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:09pm

    Bless our brave Hong Kong antifa protesters, standing up against authoritarian China!

    o7

COMMENTS

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  • anonpls
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 7:14pm

    I was thinking earlier that it's a bit counter productive to say "Fuck China".

    It puts Chinese people on the defensive and plays into the CCP's goals with their propaganda. Think of all the fox news articles going on about Muslim Imam's shouting "death to america" for example.

    If you say "fuck the CCP" however you create that all important buffer between the actual people and the government with is very helpful to cut the CCP's propaganda at the knees while simultaneously giving our side's propaganda a pretty powerful tool imo.

    Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.

  • cpt-ry
    7 points Oct 12,2019, 6:18pm

    Here take your deserved karma points, for such a courageous post.

  • onelonelywhumperfly
    3 points Oct 12,2019, 6:59pm

    freeHongKong

  • dacspike
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:17pm

    Is that leaked art for the next Hearthstone expansion?

  • Hoontah050601
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 8:03pm

    What exactly do you mean by "fuck China"?

  • TheSoftestTaco
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 8:08pm

    This is about as edgy as "Fuck Trump"posting, we all hate the Chinese govt.

    Also like the other guy said, fuck the chinese govt, not the chinese people

  • PostModernCommie
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:09pm

    Bless our brave Hong Kong antifa protesters, standing up against authoritarian China!

    o7

● ● ●

We hold these truths to be self-evident

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

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  • JohnMuirsBeard
    267 points Oct 12,2019, 7:29am

    This reminds me of the “legalize it so they can tax it and make money” crowd. How about no Scott. I’m not cool with the government selling my rights back to me.

  • adamd22
    89 points Oct 12,2019, 9:07am

    Nobody has rights unless they can defend them via force.

  • cryiiz
    33 points Oct 12,2019, 10:34am

    It’s like people want the government to be their parents

  • Bywater
    26 points Oct 12,2019, 8:34am

    Natural Law a tough one for some folks.

  • Kietay
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 2:38pm

    This subreddit makes me so happy

  • Der_Absender
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 3:07pm

    The moment you need to destroy history, to justify your paradox of an ideolog, while simultaniously showing your incompetence to see nuance in politcal systems and development of human society, you became a libertarian.

  • zaparans
    21 points Oct 12,2019, 8:45am

    The idea that we are born with rights may be useful in a theoretical sense but there in practice it’s entirely made up. It’s a concept we generally choose to accept in this time and place which is good but there is no inherent truth to it. In practice the founders literally made up a govt that made up that we have rights and has to some degree afforded us to keep those rights.

  • ldh
    10 points Oct 12,2019, 10:59am

    Libertarian cognitive dissonance over "rights" is never more fully on display than when using quotes from the founder of a state to chastise states about infringing upon them.

  • BigHeadDeadass
    7 points Oct 12,2019, 12:01pm

    It seems like you guys rediscover social contract theory every day

  • Rager_YMN_6
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 10:07am

    ITT: A lot of “libertarians” scoffing at the concept of natural rights while probably believing in some ridiculous shit like human rights (housing, food).

  • matts2
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 1:02pm

    Next time read the entire paragraph. Or at least the next forking sente5:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

    (Emphasis mine.)

  • Captain_Biotruth
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 3:46pm

    I'm glad Bastiat seems all clever and enlightening when you're in high-school, but the fact of the matter is that no one is born with rights.

    You can huff and puff all you want about crap like the NAP, but that warlord outside 'your' house isn't going to give a shit about your philosophy ramblings.

    Rights are created through collective might. That's reality.

  • Taxtro1
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 6:43pm

    Pure nonsense. Rights don't exist outside of a society or state. What the "right to property" really means is that the people around you believe that you should be able to own things. Or otherwise that there is a handful of people with guns, who believe that. The government has more than just a handful of of people with guns, so the beliefs of various government executives is what de-facto generates rights.

  • sinfolaw
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 11:17am

    "The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for, among old parchments, or musty records. They are written, as with a sun beam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power."

  • ComicBookFanatic97
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 1:20pm

    The government will break your legs, give you a wheelchair, and then have the audacity to say that it’s only because of them that you’re mobile.

  • SirGlass
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 10:23am

    One think I don't like about this meme is it makes the government look like some 3rd party , some independent overlord like an alien or something

    Except in democracies reality the guy is talking to his neighbors not one single guy, and probably himself .

    We live in a democracy , go vote

  • Lahm0123
    3 points Oct 12,2019, 11:53am

    It's ironic. Everything in that cartoon can only happen that way because people let it happen that way.

    Government is a construct of the people. If it gets out of control the people only have themselves to blame. Government is not some controlling monster intrinsically. It is only what We the People allow it to be.

    That means it is not an enemy, or an ally. It is a tool. That's it. Don't blame the hammer if your neighbor uses it to smash something.

  • analviolator69
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 11:47am

    Thomas Jefferson: "we hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal"

    Also Jefferson: "GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH NIGGER"

  • King_Poop_Scoop
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 10:30am

    Does anyone ever actually read history? The entire concept of "rights" is relatively recent. Even the Magna Carta offered little to peasants of the era. Kings had the power of life and death. Under tribal law you were at the mercy of the Chief. The "rights" we have today are a fairly recent work in progress. Some say access to health care is now a "right", others -- mostly conservatives and Libertarians -- argue it is not. They would argue it is only your right if you can afford it. So, in effect, certain "rights" are only in effect for the wealthy. The "right" to a higher education-- a foundational ingredient to a strong economy -- is increasingly becoming one of those rights.

    In the end, it is not "the government" that gives us the rights, in a democracy it is us -- society -- a group of individuals bonded together by virtue of a majority vote. Even "inalienable rights" -- those that are supposedly natural or which come from God -- must be defined by society, honored and enforced. Otherwise they mean nothing. So does the government play a role in the definition and enforcement of rights? You bet it does. This is why, with a wannbe tyrant in office, it is so important to actually vote, write your representatives, protest and make your voice heard. That is your right, but maybe not for long.

  • taurl
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 12:40pm

    How are property rights enforced though?

  • 2068857539
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 5:08pm

    One day maybe you'll appreciate everything I haven't done to you yet.

    That's epic.

  • trapgoose800
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 11:29am

    This triggered me

  • Depidio
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 2:49pm

    OwO government senpai

  • voice-of-hermes
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:39pm

    When one comes to think of it, there are no such things as divine, immutable, or inalienable rights. Rights are things we get when we are strong enough to make good our claim on them.

    — Helen Keller

    While it's true we shouldn't be looking to the state to guarantee our rights, rights are a social contract and are neither a given nor something we are born with. They are an ongoing discussion about what we consent to in society, and how we agree to treat each other. We shouldn't assume people born fresh into the world necessarily consent to the social contract, and we definitely shouldn't force them to organize vast sums of power in order to be able to add to them (i.e. right-wing crap like "If you didn't want to live under these conditions, you just shouldn't have chosen to be born").

  • bryoneill11
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 4:42pm

    This comic is wrong. There's no natural rights.

  • Omnizoa
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 4:49pm

    I was born with these.

    I sympathize with the overall sentiment, but I don't buy the natural rights line.

  • LRonPaul2012
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:19pm

    How exactly do libertarians square the concept of inalienable natural rights with age of consent laws?

    There are four basic possibilities:

    1. Natural rights are real, liberty is a natural right you have from the time of birth, and the ability to consent falls under liberty. This means that society shouldn't be allowed to without your ability to consent.
    2. Natural rights are real, but liberty doesn't qualify as a natural right.
    3. Liberty is a natural right, but ability to consent doesn't qualify under liberty
    4. Natural rights aren't real, which means that society has the authority to withhold your ability to consent until you reach a certain age determined by society

    I personally endorse #4, because I believe that there are limits to what children can consent to. However, this goes completely against the comic strip.

    #1, #2, and #3 all assume that the comic strip is real.

    Of those, #1 cannot be reconciled with age of consent laws.

    #2 and #3 can be reconciled with age of consent laws, but they're going to be extremely difficult to argue.

    Either you believe that liberty is a natural right that children are born with and which cannot be withheld from them, or you don't. You cannot have it both ways.

  • Official_Eritas
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 7:10pm

    trans rights :D

  • mrtibbles32
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 12:04pm

    Whenever capitol hill gets burned down I hope I'm there so I can use the smoldering rubble to light my cigarette and that will be the first time the government will have helped me with anything.

  • leandroman
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:05pm

    I find it so difficult to explain / have fri nds understand the idea rights are natural, they are ours to efire Government even existed.

  • Quixotic_rage
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 2:13pm

    But yall ok with rich companies doing the same thing¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • ApexBitcoin
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:08pm

    The only reason anyone thinks government is good is because we were born to it.

    It's similar to how peasant slaves admired their tyrannical kings.

  • e88d9170cbd593
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 10:33am

    See "We hold these truths to be self evident ..." Our government only exists because of and for the preservation of these rights. If that theory is wrong then the revolution was a fraud and we are technically still British subjects.

  • jameswlf
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 10:36am

    yes! like my surplus value! give me back my surplus value government capitalist pigs!!!

  • krom0025
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:18pm

    This is another simple minded libertarian argument and part of the reason libertarians never win elections. Without a government to secure the rights you believe you are born with you have no rights in practice. It's nice to think you just automatically get them, but without rule of law I can just take them away from you and nothing will stop me. I'm not sure why libertarians are incapable of nuanced thought.

  • McBigs
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:23pm

    "Appreciate everything I haven't done to you yet." I've never heard it put better.

  • D2D3B12K
    -4 points Oct 12,2019, 9:09am

    "We hold these truths to be self evident" basically means "We have no proof".

    There are plenty of ethical philosophers to study who know that rights are made-up. You don't need to take your values from a bunch of slave owners.

  • PostModernCommie
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:31pm

    Also an example of the healthcare system.

    "Work harder -- here's some shitty healthcare"

    "But every other developed country offers universal healthcare"

    "Maybe one day you'll appreciate our system! The free market is always right!"

  • jadnich
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 11:05am

    In this thread, a tired, rehashed argument confusing natural rights and constitutional rights.

    Here is a refresher for you to downvote. Natural rights pertain to your person and property. Constitutional rights pertain to society and commerce.

    If you think that you need constitutional rights to protect your person, you are wrong. If you think natural rights give you unlimited freedom to act as you wish in society or to purchase anything that tickles your fancy, you are wrong.

  • panzercampingwagen
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 2:11pm

    This whole "inherent rights" is total horse shit originating from religious ideas about how humans are special somehow.

    If you are born in the wilderness without any other humans around, do you think you have any rights? Does the lion refrain from eating you because homo sapiens are special?

    Rights originate exclusively from other people. The goverment is there to enforce them.

  • snowbirdnerd
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 10:20am

    Rights aren't something that are universal. This is pretty easy to prove. Simply look at what people think about rights.

    If they were universal everyone would agree, they clearly don't.

  • diedbroke
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 3:46pm

    I'm still mad at the DUI I got. It completely ruined my life. Big brother government should not infringe on my right to put whatever I want in my body and do whatever activities I want. I have the right to DUI

  • ATrueBlueGamer
    -3 points Oct 12,2019, 9:28am

    You cannot be "born" with rights. They are not a thing that exists in our genetic code. Nor are they natural as they cannot be hunted or gathered. Nature says that predators can take your life, parasites can take your freedom, and diseases can take your pursuit of happiness. Let's say you live in a lawless anarchy with no law enforcement and there is a serial killer on the loose. How would the community punish him for taking lives (presumed "natural" rights) when he is not breaking a nonexistent law?

  • sidneyl
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:04pm

    This is so retardedly american and is a perfect example of a narrow point of view.

    These rights were not given by governments. We as humans had to write our own Freedoms/Rights in a Constitution, we had to give them to ourselves. "A Government" is not some mythical creature, it's people. Normal humans beings. We were not "born free" we were born in the Libertarian HellHole that is Mother Nature and had to claw our way to the top, Subjugating Nature. We evolved to be free. Just like animals are not "free" due to limited intelligence, so were early humans, AKA Hipster Libertarians. What the Libertarian Utopia of mother nature gave us is Monarchy. Everywhere, on every continent, in every major city, there was a king. I know you americans are unfamiliar with "KINGS" so you can swap them instead for "TAXES", you know, that "taxation without representation" thing your contry was pretty passionate about ? Yeah, America was not born free. You had to fight for that.

    Same over here in europe. I'm french. We kickstarted "Human Rights". You know that "Déclaration des Droits de L'Homme" that was the template for the Decleration of Human Rights. You were not born with a constitution in hand. You earn it by being a respectable human. If you don't respect the laws, we put you in jail. I know that some of you get butthurt over that, but that has always been, with or without "big governments".

    We French had to fight off every other fucking nation in Europe to keep our Democracy, our Fredoms, our Rights.
    We fucked up pretty much the whole fucking Continent with Napoleon and they needed a huge Internationnal alliance to stop the French Republican Values.
    Still they came after us.

    You have no Historical Persepective of Democracy. Your views on "Rights and Freedom" are skewed. You consider "Governements" like mythical beasts instead of actual people. You glorify anarchy, ask for the abolishing of taxes and governments but you wouldn't survive two minutes in the actual Hell that is your Libertarian Utopia. Go live in Somalia, where you have no regulations/government and come back and tell me how great that was.

  • deleted
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 1:28pm

    Forgot to make the guys cap red...

  • TakesCrappyPhotos
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 1:47pm

    The idea of natural rights is silly. Nobody has ever been born with inherent rights.

    That's why it's taken centuries and many different societies for a lot of the things we consider intrinsic now, to actually be considered intrinsic.

    The idea that you're born with rights might sound nice and all, but it makes no sense.

    There are large swathes of the world that don't recognize basically any rights, and some that are in between.

    How do we decide which are wrong and which are right?

    From the point of view of a Saudi Arabian citizen or an Eritrean citizen, they don't have the rights we have.

    How is the government able to infringe upon natural rights if they are natural?

    Even the definitions of those rights has changed since the founding of our country. Only white men who held property had the right to vote a couple of hundred years ago. When did they become intrinsic to all people?

  • FARTCOPTERRRRR
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 12:41pm
  • meatballs2117
    -2 points Oct 12,2019, 8:48am
  • Kerngul
    -3 points Oct 12,2019, 11:08am

    equivalency of the libertarians who say "its muh god given right!" or "it's muh natural rights" ,and society has to politely remind them you cant go around raping, murdering or enslaving people because you believe your diety told you it was your right.

  • MineDogger
    -2 points Oct 12,2019, 1:14pm

    I know I'm going to get dogpiled for this, but... The concept of inherent "rights" is dogshi-I mean dogmatic. An irrelevant humainistic concept. "Rights" are defined in the context of the govt in question. "Rights" cannot supercede or precede the institution that defines them.

    The very idea of implicit "rights" is self contradictory. A govt exists to limit absolute freedom in exchange for contrived systems. You can expect to be "free" to do what you've been told to do...

  • -lighght-
    -4 points Oct 12,2019, 10:05am

    The only thing you have coming into this world is the skin on your back. Governments give rights. Dont kid yourself.

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:01am

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  • JohnMuirsBeard
    267 points Oct 12,2019, 7:29am

    This reminds me of the “legalize it so they can tax it and make money” crowd. How about no Scott. I’m not cool with the government selling my rights back to me.

  • adamd22
    89 points Oct 12,2019, 9:07am

    Nobody has rights unless they can defend them via force.

  • Inkberrow
    90 points Oct 12,2019, 6:44am

    If he was born with them, how did government get a hold of the rights in the first place?

  • cryiiz
    33 points Oct 12,2019, 10:34am

    It’s like people want the government to be their parents

  • Bywater
    26 points Oct 12,2019, 8:34am

    Natural Law a tough one for some folks.

  • Kietay
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 2:38pm

    This subreddit makes me so happy

  • Der_Absender
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 3:07pm

    The moment you need to destroy history, to justify your paradox of an ideolog, while simultaniously showing your incompetence to see nuance in politcal systems and development of human society, you became a libertarian.

  • zaparans
    21 points Oct 12,2019, 8:45am

    The idea that we are born with rights may be useful in a theoretical sense but there in practice it’s entirely made up. It’s a concept we generally choose to accept in this time and place which is good but there is no inherent truth to it. In practice the founders literally made up a govt that made up that we have rights and has to some degree afforded us to keep those rights.

  • ldh
    10 points Oct 12,2019, 10:59am

    Libertarian cognitive dissonance over "rights" is never more fully on display than when using quotes from the founder of a state to chastise states about infringing upon them.

  • BigHeadDeadass
    7 points Oct 12,2019, 12:01pm

    It seems like you guys rediscover social contract theory every day

  • Rager_YMN_6
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 10:07am

    ITT: A lot of “libertarians” scoffing at the concept of natural rights while probably believing in some ridiculous shit like human rights (housing, food).

  • matts2
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 1:02pm

    Next time read the entire paragraph. Or at least the next forking sente5:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

    (Emphasis mine.)

  • Captain_Biotruth
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 3:46pm

    I'm glad Bastiat seems all clever and enlightening when you're in high-school, but the fact of the matter is that no one is born with rights.

    You can huff and puff all you want about crap like the NAP, but that warlord outside 'your' house isn't going to give a shit about your philosophy ramblings.

    Rights are created through collective might. That's reality.

  • Taxtro1
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 6:43pm

    Pure nonsense. Rights don't exist outside of a society or state. What the "right to property" really means is that the people around you believe that you should be able to own things. Or otherwise that there is a handful of people with guns, who believe that. The government has more than just a handful of of people with guns, so the beliefs of various government executives is what de-facto generates rights.

  • sinfolaw
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 11:17am

    "The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for, among old parchments, or musty records. They are written, as with a sun beam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power."

  • ComicBookFanatic97
    4 points Oct 12,2019, 1:20pm

    The government will break your legs, give you a wheelchair, and then have the audacity to say that it’s only because of them that you’re mobile.

  • SirGlass
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 10:23am

    One think I don't like about this meme is it makes the government look like some 3rd party , some independent overlord like an alien or something

    Except in democracies reality the guy is talking to his neighbors not one single guy, and probably himself .

    We live in a democracy , go vote

  • Lahm0123
    3 points Oct 12,2019, 11:53am

    It's ironic. Everything in that cartoon can only happen that way because people let it happen that way.

    Government is a construct of the people. If it gets out of control the people only have themselves to blame. Government is not some controlling monster intrinsically. It is only what We the People allow it to be.

    That means it is not an enemy, or an ally. It is a tool. That's it. Don't blame the hammer if your neighbor uses it to smash something.

  • analviolator69
    9 points Oct 12,2019, 11:47am

    Thomas Jefferson: "we hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal"

    Also Jefferson: "GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH NIGGER"

  • King_Poop_Scoop
    5 points Oct 12,2019, 10:30am

    Does anyone ever actually read history? The entire concept of "rights" is relatively recent. Even the Magna Carta offered little to peasants of the era. Kings had the power of life and death. Under tribal law you were at the mercy of the Chief. The "rights" we have today are a fairly recent work in progress. Some say access to health care is now a "right", others -- mostly conservatives and Libertarians -- argue it is not. They would argue it is only your right if you can afford it. So, in effect, certain "rights" are only in effect for the wealthy. The "right" to a higher education-- a foundational ingredient to a strong economy -- is increasingly becoming one of those rights.

    In the end, it is not "the government" that gives us the rights, in a democracy it is us -- society -- a group of individuals bonded together by virtue of a majority vote. Even "inalienable rights" -- those that are supposedly natural or which come from God -- must be defined by society, honored and enforced. Otherwise they mean nothing. So does the government play a role in the definition and enforcement of rights? You bet it does. This is why, with a wannbe tyrant in office, it is so important to actually vote, write your representatives, protest and make your voice heard. That is your right, but maybe not for long.

  • taurl
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 12:40pm

    How are property rights enforced though?

  • 2068857539
    2 points Oct 12,2019, 5:08pm

    One day maybe you'll appreciate everything I haven't done to you yet.

    That's epic.

  • trapgoose800
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 11:29am

    This triggered me

  • Depidio
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 2:49pm

    OwO government senpai

  • voice-of-hermes
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:39pm

    When one comes to think of it, there are no such things as divine, immutable, or inalienable rights. Rights are things we get when we are strong enough to make good our claim on them.

    — Helen Keller

    While it's true we shouldn't be looking to the state to guarantee our rights, rights are a social contract and are neither a given nor something we are born with. They are an ongoing discussion about what we consent to in society, and how we agree to treat each other. We shouldn't assume people born fresh into the world necessarily consent to the social contract, and we definitely shouldn't force them to organize vast sums of power in order to be able to add to them (i.e. right-wing crap like "If you didn't want to live under these conditions, you just shouldn't have chosen to be born").

  • bryoneill11
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 4:42pm

    This comic is wrong. There's no natural rights.

  • Omnizoa
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 4:49pm

    I was born with these.

    I sympathize with the overall sentiment, but I don't buy the natural rights line.

  • LRonPaul2012
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 6:19pm

    How exactly do libertarians square the concept of inalienable natural rights with age of consent laws?

    There are four basic possibilities:

    1. Natural rights are real, liberty is a natural right you have from the time of birth, and the ability to consent falls under liberty. This means that society shouldn't be allowed to without your ability to consent.
    2. Natural rights are real, but liberty doesn't qualify as a natural right.
    3. Liberty is a natural right, but ability to consent doesn't qualify under liberty
    4. Natural rights aren't real, which means that society has the authority to withhold your ability to consent until you reach a certain age determined by society

    I personally endorse #4, because I believe that there are limits to what children can consent to. However, this goes completely against the comic strip.

    #1, #2, and #3 all assume that the comic strip is real.

    Of those, #1 cannot be reconciled with age of consent laws.

    #2 and #3 can be reconciled with age of consent laws, but they're going to be extremely difficult to argue.

    Either you believe that liberty is a natural right that children are born with and which cannot be withheld from them, or you don't. You cannot have it both ways.

  • Official_Eritas
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 7:10pm

    trans rights :D

  • mrtibbles32
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 12:04pm

    Whenever capitol hill gets burned down I hope I'm there so I can use the smoldering rubble to light my cigarette and that will be the first time the government will have helped me with anything.

  • leandroman
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:05pm

    I find it so difficult to explain / have fri nds understand the idea rights are natural, they are ours to efire Government even existed.

  • Quixotic_rage
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 2:13pm

    But yall ok with rich companies doing the same thing¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • ApexBitcoin
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:08pm

    The only reason anyone thinks government is good is because we were born to it.

    It's similar to how peasant slaves admired their tyrannical kings.

  • e88d9170cbd593
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 10:33am

    See "We hold these truths to be self evident ..." Our government only exists because of and for the preservation of these rights. If that theory is wrong then the revolution was a fraud and we are technically still British subjects.

  • jameswlf
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 10:36am

    yes! like my surplus value! give me back my surplus value government capitalist pigs!!!

  • krom0025
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:18pm

    This is another simple minded libertarian argument and part of the reason libertarians never win elections. Without a government to secure the rights you believe you are born with you have no rights in practice. It's nice to think you just automatically get them, but without rule of law I can just take them away from you and nothing will stop me. I'm not sure why libertarians are incapable of nuanced thought.

  • McBigs
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 3:23pm

    "Appreciate everything I haven't done to you yet." I've never heard it put better.

  • D2D3B12K
    -4 points Oct 12,2019, 9:09am

    "We hold these truths to be self evident" basically means "We have no proof".

    There are plenty of ethical philosophers to study who know that rights are made-up. You don't need to take your values from a bunch of slave owners.

  • PostModernCommie
    1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:31pm

    Also an example of the healthcare system.

    "Work harder -- here's some shitty healthcare"

    "But every other developed country offers universal healthcare"

    "Maybe one day you'll appreciate our system! The free market is always right!"

  • jadnich
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 11:05am

    In this thread, a tired, rehashed argument confusing natural rights and constitutional rights.

    Here is a refresher for you to downvote. Natural rights pertain to your person and property. Constitutional rights pertain to society and commerce.

    If you think that you need constitutional rights to protect your person, you are wrong. If you think natural rights give you unlimited freedom to act as you wish in society or to purchase anything that tickles your fancy, you are wrong.

  • panzercampingwagen
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 2:11pm

    This whole "inherent rights" is total horse shit originating from religious ideas about how humans are special somehow.

    If you are born in the wilderness without any other humans around, do you think you have any rights? Does the lion refrain from eating you because homo sapiens are special?

    Rights originate exclusively from other people. The goverment is there to enforce them.

  • snowbirdnerd
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 10:20am

    Rights aren't something that are universal. This is pretty easy to prove. Simply look at what people think about rights.

    If they were universal everyone would agree, they clearly don't.

  • diedbroke
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 3:46pm

    I'm still mad at the DUI I got. It completely ruined my life. Big brother government should not infringe on my right to put whatever I want in my body and do whatever activities I want. I have the right to DUI

  • ATrueBlueGamer
    -3 points Oct 12,2019, 9:28am

    You cannot be "born" with rights. They are not a thing that exists in our genetic code. Nor are they natural as they cannot be hunted or gathered. Nature says that predators can take your life, parasites can take your freedom, and diseases can take your pursuit of happiness. Let's say you live in a lawless anarchy with no law enforcement and there is a serial killer on the loose. How would the community punish him for taking lives (presumed "natural" rights) when he is not breaking a nonexistent law?

  • sidneyl
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 12:04pm

    This is so retardedly american and is a perfect example of a narrow point of view.

    These rights were not given by governments. We as humans had to write our own Freedoms/Rights in a Constitution, we had to give them to ourselves. "A Government" is not some mythical creature, it's people. Normal humans beings. We were not "born free" we were born in the Libertarian HellHole that is Mother Nature and had to claw our way to the top, Subjugating Nature. We evolved to be free. Just like animals are not "free" due to limited intelligence, so were early humans, AKA Hipster Libertarians. What the Libertarian Utopia of mother nature gave us is Monarchy. Everywhere, on every continent, in every major city, there was a king. I know you americans are unfamiliar with "KINGS" so you can swap them instead for "TAXES", you know, that "taxation without representation" thing your contry was pretty passionate about ? Yeah, America was not born free. You had to fight for that.

    Same over here in europe. I'm french. We kickstarted "Human Rights". You know that "Déclaration des Droits de L'Homme" that was the template for the Decleration of Human Rights. You were not born with a constitution in hand. You earn it by being a respectable human. If you don't respect the laws, we put you in jail. I know that some of you get butthurt over that, but that has always been, with or without "big governments".

    We French had to fight off every other fucking nation in Europe to keep our Democracy, our Fredoms, our Rights.
    We fucked up pretty much the whole fucking Continent with Napoleon and they needed a huge Internationnal alliance to stop the French Republican Values.
    Still they came after us.

    You have no Historical Persepective of Democracy. Your views on "Rights and Freedom" are skewed. You consider "Governements" like mythical beasts instead of actual people. You glorify anarchy, ask for the abolishing of taxes and governments but you wouldn't survive two minutes in the actual Hell that is your Libertarian Utopia. Go live in Somalia, where you have no regulations/government and come back and tell me how great that was.

  • deleted
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 1:28pm

    Forgot to make the guys cap red...

  • TakesCrappyPhotos
    -1 points Oct 12,2019, 1:47pm

    The idea of natural rights is silly. Nobody has ever been born with inherent rights.

    That's why it's taken centuries and many different societies for a lot of the things we consider intrinsic now, to actually be considered intrinsic.

    The idea that you're born with rights might sound nice and all, but it makes no sense.

    There are large swathes of the world that don't recognize basically any rights, and some that are in between.

    How do we decide which are wrong and which are right?

    From the point of view of a Saudi Arabian citizen or an Eritrean citizen, they don't have the rights we have.

    How is the government able to infringe upon natural rights if they are natural?

    Even the definitions of those rights has changed since the founding of our country. Only white men who held property had the right to vote a couple of hundred years ago. When did they become intrinsic to all people?

  • FARTCOPTERRRRR
    0 points Oct 12,2019, 12:41pm
  • meatballs2117
    -2 points Oct 12,2019, 8:48am
  • Kerngul
    -3 points Oct 12,2019, 11:08am

    equivalency of the libertarians who say "its muh god given right!" or "it's muh natural rights" ,and society has to politely remind them you cant go around raping, murdering or enslaving people because you believe your diety told you it was your right.

  • MineDogger
    -2 points Oct 12,2019, 1:14pm

    I know I'm going to get dogpiled for this, but... The concept of inherent "rights" is dogshi-I mean dogmatic. An irrelevant humainistic concept. "Rights" are defined in the context of the govt in question. "Rights" cannot supercede or precede the institution that defines them.

    The very idea of implicit "rights" is self contradictory. A govt exists to limit absolute freedom in exchange for contrived systems. You can expect to be "free" to do what you've been told to do...

  • -lighght-
    -4 points Oct 12,2019, 10:05am

    The only thing you have coming into this world is the skin on your back. Governments give rights. Dont kid yourself.

● ● ●

Cursed image

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:02pm

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  • Bywater
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:33pm

    That's Kissinger and Pompeo for those that don't know.

  • Shaman_Bond
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:56pm

    Pure evil and gluttony incarnate.

COMMENTS

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    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:02pm

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  • Bywater
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:33pm

    That's Kissinger and Pompeo for those that don't know.

  • Shaman_Bond
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:56pm

    Pure evil and gluttony incarnate.

● ● ●

"If you love... servitude greater than... freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel... Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -Sam Adams

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:28pm

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  • shapeshifter83
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 7:54pm

    Who tf is Candace Owens and why are her 75IQ tweets news?

  • captainmo017
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:53pm

    Dissent is Patriotic!

  • YachtingChristopher
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:53pm

    I am trying to remember what our horribly unjust government does to AMERICAN criminals when they get arrested. Do their kids go with them?

    Oh wait, no they don't. They get separated from their criminal family members. How...fucking...cruel...

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:28pm

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  • shapeshifter83
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 7:54pm

    Who tf is Candace Owens and why are her 75IQ tweets news?

  • captainmo017
    2 points Sep 29,2019, 6:53pm

    Dissent is Patriotic!

  • MuddyFilter
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 7:23pm

    Immigration law is not unjust

    I realize this isnt the libertarian position, but that doesnt really matter

  • YachtingChristopher
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 6:53pm

    I am trying to remember what our horribly unjust government does to AMERICAN criminals when they get arrested. Do their kids go with them?

    Oh wait, no they don't. They get separated from their criminal family members. How...fucking...cruel...

● ● ●

I Want You to Defend Saudi Oil

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Sep 29,2019, 10:21am

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  • Shademaster21
    16 points Sep 29,2019, 10:23am

    But I want the Saudi oil to burn.

  • ClaybourneTSB
    51 points Sep 29,2019, 10:43am

    Is there any legitimate reason we are slaughtering children in Yemen.

  • JohnathanAndrews1000
    9 points Sep 29,2019, 10:27am

    I think US interests in Saudi oil go way more complicated than just some intervention.

  • Aplatypus_13
    4 points Sep 29,2019, 12:47pm

    That could be any president.

  • AryaNaut
    0 points Sep 29,2019, 3:08pm

    Prob because the USD is in some way tied to it?

  • InterspersedMangoMan
    -4 points Sep 29,2019, 12:07pm

    I thought libertarians understood global economics.

  • Hellothereawesome
    -2 points Sep 29,2019, 1:23pm

    But but, if we are sanctioning the people of Venezuela and Iran, and the Saudis don't make my oil, who's gonna pay for the gas I put in my truck every morning?

    Oh what's that, the government makes its own oil now?

    Ok so if the EU and Japan doesn't get their oil because Venezuela and Iran are sanctioned, and the Saudi government is retarded, then how would anyone count on the US as a world power ready to protect them, what would happen to my fragile confidence then, if I don't continue reiterate to myself that I live under the most powerful government in the world. I wouldn't be able to feel good anymore because I have nothing else to hold on to other than materialism, greed, tribalism, and idiocy.

  • mrjinglesturd
    -5 points Sep 29,2019, 6:08pm

    You guys are lost, Trump has probably been the least willing to defend Saudi oil of the past 4 presidents

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
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  • Shademaster21
    16 points Sep 29,2019, 10:23am

    But I want the Saudi oil to burn.

  • ClaybourneTSB
    51 points Sep 29,2019, 10:43am

    Is there any legitimate reason we are slaughtering children in Yemen.

  • USBattleSteed
    20 points Sep 29,2019, 12:22pm

    Remember that time we invaded Iraq because some Saudis blew up the world trade center

  • JohnathanAndrews1000
    9 points Sep 29,2019, 10:27am

    I think US interests in Saudi oil go way more complicated than just some intervention.

  • Aplatypus_13
    4 points Sep 29,2019, 12:47pm

    That could be any president.

  • AryaNaut
    0 points Sep 29,2019, 3:08pm

    Prob because the USD is in some way tied to it?

  • InterspersedMangoMan
    -4 points Sep 29,2019, 12:07pm

    I thought libertarians understood global economics.

  • Hellothereawesome
    -2 points Sep 29,2019, 1:23pm

    But but, if we are sanctioning the people of Venezuela and Iran, and the Saudis don't make my oil, who's gonna pay for the gas I put in my truck every morning?

    Oh what's that, the government makes its own oil now?

    Ok so if the EU and Japan doesn't get their oil because Venezuela and Iran are sanctioned, and the Saudi government is retarded, then how would anyone count on the US as a world power ready to protect them, what would happen to my fragile confidence then, if I don't continue reiterate to myself that I live under the most powerful government in the world. I wouldn't be able to feel good anymore because I have nothing else to hold on to other than materialism, greed, tribalism, and idiocy.

  • mrjinglesturd
    -5 points Sep 29,2019, 6:08pm

    You guys are lost, Trump has probably been the least willing to defend Saudi oil of the past 4 presidents

● ● ●

.

/r/Libertarian: For a free society

COMMENTS

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    1 points Sep 22,2019, 11:32pm

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  • ThorHammerDong
    8 points Sep 23,2019, 1:47am

    americans will comply!

    ~Robert Francis O'Rourke

  • towaway562
    2 points Sep 23,2019, 6:23am

    LOL

  • FactsOverYourFeels
    -4 points Sep 23,2019, 1:37am

    This is historical homesteading... Not libertarian fantasy homesteading.

    E: denying the US Homestead Act and the English Enclosure Acts... Lmao, typical.

COMMENTS

  • AutoModerator
    1 points Sep 22,2019, 11:32pm

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  • ThorHammerDong
    8 points Sep 23,2019, 1:47am

    americans will comply!

    ~Robert Francis O'Rourke

  • towaway562
    2 points Sep 23,2019, 6:23am

    LOL

  • Sean951
    1 points Sep 23,2019, 1:36pm

    ... why did you take as picture of your monitor?

  • FactsOverYourFeels
    -4 points Sep 23,2019, 1:37am

    This is historical homesteading... Not libertarian fantasy homesteading.

    E: denying the US Homestead Act and the English Enclosure Acts... Lmao, typical.